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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Can only say I hope this one's not true:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/aug/16/bob-dylan-accusations-sexual-abuse-lawsuit
Quote: | A new lawsuit alleges that Bob Dylan, the Nobel-winning folk singer-songwriter, plied a 12-year-old girl with drugs and alcohol before sexually abusing her in 1965.
The lawsuit alleges that the Times They Are A-Changin’ singer “befriended and established an emotional connection with the plaintiff”, identified in Manhattan supreme court papers, obtained by the Guardian, only as “JC” and groomed her over the course of six weeks in April and May 1965.
The suit, filed late Friday on behalf of JC, now a 68-year-old woman living in Greenwich, Connecticut, alleges that Dylan, then 23 or 24 years old, “exploited his status as a musician by grooming JC to gain her trust and to obtain control over her as part of his plan to sexually molest and abuse” her. |
Anyhow, one good thing about being a super famous musician is that alibis aren't too hard to come by – tour dates collated in this Twitter thread suggest he wasn't even in America in May 1965, let alone in New York:
https://twitter.com/venetianblonde/status/1427386653941936128 _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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That's a Looooooong time to wait to make a complaint.
The 60's and 70's was a different world to now, even the 80's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Smith
It's entirely probable that it's true _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Also entirely possible that someone with a mental illness has fantasised an assault by a famous person, a la Sister Jeanne in The Devils. I would be very much holding fire on this one until further details come to light, at the very least – but the fact that the dates seem impossible already casts significant doubt on the allegations (yes, victims can misremember dates; but if even those can't be corroborated then you don't have much basis for a case). _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Unsurprising really considering the large proportion of Lesbians in female team sport.
The shower comments are interesting, I thought the old communal showers after training were a relic from the 80's.
I remember U14's footy, guys were at massively different stages of development from bald as a badger to hairy as a bear, you just got in the shower, grabbed a cake of communal soap covered in pubes and washed the mud off.
I completely get how a teenage hetro female would have struggled with overt sexual harassment like that described by other females _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I'm not actually sure De Vanna is straight – you can be lesbian or bisexual and still be totally freaked out by that level of unwanted attention – but yes, it seems like that was a dynamic at play in some cases:
Quote: | Former W-League star Rhali Dobson has also claimed she was a target of predatory behaviour.
Dobson, who played for Melbourne City, Newcastle Jets, the Young Matildas and Matildas over a 13-year career, said the pressure off the field outweighed the pressure on it.
“Initially why I made myself so feminine was because I was trying to keep people away from me,” Dobson said.
“I know what it was like when I was younger, I didn’t want to even have a shower after the game.
“I’d wait until I got back to my room. There were a couple of us young ones that were all in the same boat.
“A lot of it is pushed under the rug. It was a case of grooming when I first came on the scene because I was asked: ‘Do I prefer boys or do you prefer girls?’
“I said I liked boys and remember just looking down at the ground and all the laughter and being told: ‘We’ll change that soon enough.’ |
_________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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gees thats bloody disgusting
- and the pubes in the soap. ugh. thanks dont need lunch now! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Not trying to come across as an apologist – clearly what the senator did here is inappropriate and all too common, and not something that any staffer should have to put up with – but am I the only one who feels a bit weirded out by terms like "sexual assault" (a term often used as interchangeable with rape in media reportage) being employed in cases like this?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/26/huma-abedin-sexual-assault-us-senator-book-memoir
Quote: | She says the senator took off his blazer, rolled up his sleeves and made coffee while they continued to talk.
“Then, in an instant, it all changed. He plopped down to my right, put his left arm around my shoulder, and kissed me, pushing his tongue into my mouth, pressing me back on the sofa.
“I was so utterly shocked, I pushed him away. All I wanted was for the last 10 seconds to be erased.”
Abedin writes that the senator seemed surprised but apologized and said he had “misread” her “all this time”. As she considered how to leave “without this ending badly”, she writes, the senator asked if she wanted to stay. |
So she signalled that she wasn't into it, and he immediately apologised and backed off, which is not exactly a common feature of sexual assaults. But what follows is especially noteworthy, I think:
Quote: | Abedin writes that she stayed friendly with the senator and soon “buried the incident”, which she wanted to forget, succeeding in erasing it from her mind “entirely”. |
The common presumption here is that sexual assault is always traumatic, and that trauma leads to repression of memories. But there's another reason why stuff like this could have disappeared from her mind: because it wasn't that traumatising at all, merely a brief bit of unpleasantness that quickly became lost among the million other things happening in her life from day to day. (I can't say I know exactly how it feels to be a woman and to be kissed against my will, but I have had a few things in this realm happen to me, and yeah, not every one is seared into my brain permanently.)
I know this is a controversial line of thinking, but it's something that's been on my mind really since #MeToo first hit (if not before): the first step is the revelation of all of these previously publicly invisible experiences and providing an insight into the things that (particularly) women experience but rarely talk about; the second step, which is somewhat more fraught, is a wrangling by victims and broader society alike over how to properly categorise these experiences and quantify their harm. #MeToo provided plenty of opportunities for this through the reportage of edge cases like Aziz Ansari's, but unfortunately tended to go straight to the third step, which was retribution (of some kind) for perpetrators: i.e. something bad was done, this person did it, therefore this person should be jailed / fired / run out of public life.
I think that second step is one we're going to have to go back and grapple with again very soon, though – not because victims need to be told how to feel, but because the system for dealing with sexual misconduct is so broken and dysfunctional that we need a way forward that directly addresses harm and provides opportunities for restorative justice. Perhaps, in this case, all Abedin needed from the senator to heal was a profuse apology a few days later, an acknowledgement of how he had made her feel and a promise that he wouldn't do this to someone again. If that felt like sufficient remedy for her, that'd certainly have been a preferable outcome to an incident like this being swept aside at the time only to emerge as an open wound fifteen or so years down the track, perhaps with further ramifications for everyone involved if she decided to name names. Am I the only one who thinks this? _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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I can't belive I missed this, but I only just realised that famed philosopher John Searle was stripped of his titles and sent packing after one of apparently a string of sexual harassment complaints finally broke through. It was the classic abuse of authority scenario, overlooked' by UC Berkeley as he was a global star in his 80s.
I'm not into film and celebrity, and scumbags don't surprise, but this took me by surprise as I had read quite a lot of his work and had just looked up some of his arguments on the mind and consciousness again, only to discover this. Sounds like he was an outright abusive creep and likely for years, not a mere garden variety sleaze.
Very disappointing.
Here's an original news report, but a lawsuit followed and he was sent packing in disgrace in 2019: https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/03/23/berkeley-renowned-philosopher-john-searle-accused-of-sexual-assault-and-harassment-by-former-cal-aide/ _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I’d come across that too, PTID – I’m not really familiar with Searle’s work, but I also feel it’s very dispiriting that great thinkers are able to act this way with impunity.
I’m curious about how this affects your perception of him and his work – does it make you reevaluate his ideas at all? Do you think you’ll be less likely to engage with his work in future? Or is your view in the realm of "separating the art from the artist"? _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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I always try to separate the art from the artist but it's not always easy to do, which is also why I don't try to find out too much about the people I admire, work-wise. _________________ kill for collingwood! |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Location: Essendon
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David wrote: | I’d come across that too, PTID – I’m not really familiar with Searle’s work, but I also feel it’s very dispiriting that great thinkers are able to act this way with impunity.
I’m curious about how this affects your perception of him and his work – does it make you reevaluate his ideas at all? Do you think you’ll be less likely to engage with his work in future? Or is your view in the realm of "separating the art from the artist"? |
I love Searle's story about a conversation he has with Foucault about the impenetrable nature of his writing. According to Searle, Foucault told him
"In France, you gotta have ten percent incomprehensible, otherwise people won’t think it’s deep–they won’t think you’re a profound thinker.” |
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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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Ha ha ha, that's brilliant! _________________ kill for collingwood! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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