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Transgender athletes back on the agenda

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:50 pm
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“He has so much respect for all the girls he wrestles,” said McNew, AP reported. “People think Mack has been beating up on girls… The girls he wrestles with, they are tough. It has more to do with skill and discipline than strength.”


Hmmm HE has so much respect for the GIRLS he wrestles.

Basically a anctioned drug cheat, natural born females can’t take steroids and compete.

These are all no win situations. Someone is going to get robbed either way. Maybe they need to get their competitive urges out the way before they go with the sex change ones. And yes I know that’s really horrible but what is the answer?

And no I’m not changing my tune, you can certainly build a woman up with steroids, that’s why they are not legal in sports, but can you ever really decrease a males to an appropriate level?

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:55 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
That's an interesting one. Girl transitioning to a guy, want's to compete against the guys (which is a step up, not a step down as in guys transitioning to female) and he's not allowed, so he get's booed. Confused

No he’s getting booed because he’s taking steroids and wrestling girls who aren’t. Surely once he has fully transitioned they can’t stop him from competing as a male? Or are the guys worried about being beaten up by ‘a girl’?

And yes I know I’m giving mixed messages. If they just wanted to play chess it would be a lot easier!

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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:02 pm
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This may sound wrong on many levels, but my view is simplistic.

If a girl wants to compete against guys, whether transitioning or not, let her.

If a guy wants to compete against girls, the answer is NO unless the physical advantage has been neutralised.

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Vexillology 



Joined: 18 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:18 am
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Confession: I do sometimes take a peek at BF - stop reading now if that's too much!

TP referred to the BF thread on this subject several pages ago. The main BF Hannah Mouncey thread now runs to 100+ pages. Anyone interested in acquainting themselves with the width, breadth and depth of this issue could, IMO, do worse than take a look. There is loads of authoritative science as well as material about the equity issues. The usual trolls try and derail the discussion for the first 50 or so pages but lose interest once the science kicks in. They're pretty easy to skip over: they use the same sort of tactics some use here, quoting 'authoritative' sources such as blahbart and my particular favourite, the Russian English language television service FFS.

The story of one of the driving contributors, Kirsti (sorry if I've mispelt) is fascinating. Amongst other things, she plays for the Broken Hill Magpies.

For my two bobs worth: there are many who run the argument that if your birth certificate says 'female' you are a female and if your birth certificate says 'male' you are a male. Oh! that the world was that simple. IMO just about every sporting body on the planet running male and female comps is keen for the IOC to come up with a defensible policy synthesising the scientific evidence and the health and equity issues.
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Bucks5 Capricorn

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:32 am
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They just need to create competitions for transgendered athletes who have fully transitioned. One for male-to-female and the other for female-to-male. Getting enough participants might be a problem especially in smaller countries.

The people who haven't fully transitioned play for the sex they were born.

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:06 am
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Too much common sense there Bucks!
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thesoretoothsayer 



Joined: 26 Apr 2017


PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:53 pm
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Looks like the AFLW girls will be shaving their beards as well as their legs.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-31/gender-diversity-policy-for-aflw-and-afl
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HAL 

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:55 pm
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Interesting comparsion.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:13 am
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thesoretoothsayer wrote:
Looks like the AFLW girls will be shaving their beards as well as their legs.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-31/gender-diversity-policy-for-aflw-and-afl


Actually seems like a logical policy, time will tell if it’s enough.

Why do trans women have to supply the detailed fitness report though, if it’s not going to be taken into consideration? I still think that there will be considerable advantage in most of those areas, but that will be obvious on the field. It certainly was in those infamous netball games!

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stui magpie 

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:19 am
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^

Im not sure about those fitness reports either. The results would be easy to fudge. Confused

I'm interested in this bit.

Quote:
The policy has been developed over 12 months following consultation with medical and scientific experts in elite competitive sport, the Australian Human Rights Commission, Australian Sports Commission, AFLPA and representatives from the gender diverse community.


How much say I wonder, have the female footballers had in all this? They are the ones who will be playing with and against the trans athletes.

I wonder what would happen is a female footballer was cleaned up in a tackle by a trans opponent and suffered a career ending injury as their opponent was bigger and stronger?

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:45 am
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stui magpie wrote:
^

Im not sure about those fitness reports either. The results would be easy to fudge. Confused

I'm interested in this bit.

Quote:
The policy has been developed over 12 months following consultation with medical and scientific experts in elite competitive sport, the Australian Human Rights Commission, Australian Sports Commission, AFLPA and representatives from the gender diverse community.


How much say I wonder, have the female footballers had in all this? They are the ones who will be playing with and against the trans athletes.

I wonder what would happen is a female footballer was cleaned up in a tackle by a trans opponent and suffered a career ending injury as their opponent was bigger and stronger?


That’s what I argued way back when in the netball thread, when I saw first hand the difference physically. Footy is a very physical game, and as was pointed out then, there are a lot of very big females playing footy, and netball. Does it make a difference if the opponent is also trans gender? Certainly it not just height and weight advantage. I have no idea what the answer is. I’m not going there again, because I personally can’t see a middle ground that makes everyone happy.

Also, Stuff happens. As we unfortunately saw last week.

May She RIP.

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Culprit Cancer



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:20 am
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Where we have rules we have anomaly's. Mouncey is one anomaly and is actually huge, just look at him/her standing next to Jonathon Brown for a comparison. 5 years testosterone levels should be standard with monthly testing. No testicles and penis (expensive procedure) but if you want to play football with women, you have to be one. Not 50/50.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:57 am
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And who decides who is or isn't a woman, exactly?
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Skids Cancer



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:21 am
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David wrote:
And who decides who is or isn't a woman, exactly?


The penis?

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Culprit Cancer



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:22 am
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David wrote:
And who decides who is or isn't a woman, exactly?
My view, if you need to stand to pee then that rules you out of the Women'c comp.
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