All roads lead to McHale?

[David]

Harrysz's 1977 grand final thread sent me off on a tangent just now: it occurred to me that, of the four most prominent non-Collingwood players who have gone on to coach the club (including our last three premiership coaches), each had a direct relationship to one of the others: Tom Hafey coached Mick Malthouse in the former's final year at Richmond, and Leigh Matthews coached Craig McRae to three premierships at Brisbane.

Of course, once we're talking about who coaches were coached by in their playing days, you can look at further links in the chain. Hafey, for instance, was coached in his first few years at Richmond by Albert Pannam, who of course was a champion Collingwood player in the days when Jock McHale was coaching us. Finding the same end point for Leigh Matthews was trickier: towards the end of his career at Hawthorn, he was coached by Allan Jeans, who in turn was coached in his final year at St Kilda by Jim Francis, who as a Hawthorn player in the 1930s was coached by Bill Twomey, who played for Collingwood from 1918 to 1922.

So I've set myself a challenge: is it possible to find a link back to McHale for every Collingwood coach? It seems the answer is yes:

• Craig McRae: Leigh Matthews (Brisbane, 1999–2004) --> Allan Jeans (Hawthorn, 1981–1985) --> Jim Francis (St Kilda, 1959) --> Bill Twomey (Hawthorn, 1933–1934) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1918–1922)
• Robert Harvey: Tim Watson (St Kilda, 1999–2000) --> Kevin Sheedy (Essendon, 1981–1994) --> Tom Hafey (Richmond, 1967–1976) --> Albert Pannam --> (Richmond, 1953–1955) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1933–1945)
• Nathan Buckley: Tony Shaw (Collingwood, 1996–1999) --> Bob Rose (Collingwood 1985–1986) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1946–1949)
• Mick Malthouse: Tom Hafey (Richmond, 1976) --> Albert Pannam --> (Richmond, 1953–1955) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1933–1945)
• Tony Shaw: Bob Rose (Collingwood 1985–1986) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1946–1949)
• Leigh Matthews: Allan Jeans (Hawthorn, 1981–1985) --> Jim Francis (St Kilda, 1959) --> Bill Twomey (Hawthorn, 1933–1934) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1918–1922)
• Bob Rose: Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1946–1949)
• John Cahill: Fos Williams (Port Adelaide SANFL, 1962–1973) --> Johnny Taylor (West Adelaide SANFL, 1948–1949) --> Charlie Gaudion (West Adelaide SANFL, 1940) --> Paddy Scanlan (North Melbourne, 1935–1937) --> Charles Pannam (South Melbourne, 1923–1926) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1917–1922)
• Mick Erwin: Phonse Kyne (Collingwood, 1962–1963) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1934–1949)
• Tom Hafey: Albert Pannam --> (Richmond, 1953–1955) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1933–1945)
• Murray Weideman: Phonse Kyne (Collingwood, 1953–1963) --> Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1934–1949)
• Neil Mann: Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1945–1949)
• Ron Richards: Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1947–1949)
• Phonse Kyne: Jock McHale (Collingwood, 1934–1949)

I guess the next question is: is there any coach of the modern era who hasn't been (indirectly) influenced by McHale somewhere along the line? And how far back would you have to go to find a coach who hasn't been?

[RudeBoy]

You ought to get out more David!

Seriously, that's an amazing feat of forensic research mate.

[David]

[Piesnchess]

Yes, and yet, yet, the fuckingAFL still, still wont erect a statue outside the MCG to the greatest of all Coaches, Jock McHale, got one there for friggin Hungfry Bartlett for Chrissakes, but none for Jock. what a disgrace, cannot understand that, just like the bloody Team of last Century , not one Magpie in the side, not one.

[Damien]

….and for his services to CUB!

[LaurieHolden]

I love a deep dive. It's like a bloodstock pedigree.

When Collingwood won the 1953 Premiership to end a premiership drought of 17 years, McHale was overwhelmed with emotion. The next day he suffered a heart attack, and he died on 4 October at his home in Coburg.
Noted Collingwood benefactor John Wren suffered a heart attack while watching the same grand final match, and he died on 26 October 1953.

[stui magpie]

Very nice work David, can you make it work for Chris Fagan who never playerd VFL/AFL or Brendan Bolton?

[Piethagoras' Theorem]

Nice work, David, I'm surprised Kevin Bacon wasn't linked in there somehow

[David]

[David]

Okay, Bolton wasn't too difficult – he played for the Tasmanian VFL team from 2001 to 2002 when they were coached by Matthew Armstrong, who played for Fitzroy under Robert Shaw (1991–1994), who played for Essendon under Des Tuddenham (1974–1975), who played under Phonse Kyne (1962–1963), who was coached by McHale.

Fagan played for Hobart in the TANFL under Mal Pascoe (1978–1979), who played for Essendon under Dick Reynolds (1953–1958), who played for Essendon under Jack Baggott (1936–1939), who played for Richmond under Checker Hughes (1927–1932), who played for Richmond under Dan Minogue (1920–1923), who played under McHale.

(Kind of feel like I'm reciting genealogies in the Old Testament )

[David]

One of the reasons this is feasible is that Jock McHale coached a lot of players who went on to become coaches themselves. By my count, 21 Collingwood players who represented the club from 1912 to 1949 went on to coach, representing every VFL club of the era with the exception of Essendon. So, while hard to quantify through mere statistics alone, his influence on the competition and development of coaching was obviously immense.

Here's the full list of coaches who played under McHale directly:

Max Hislop (Richmond 1920)
Dan Minogue (Richmond 1920–1925, Hawthorn 1926–1927, Carlton 1929–1934, St Kilda 1935–1937, Fitzroy 1940–1942)
Percy Wilson (Melbourne 1921–1923)
Charles Pannam (South Melbourne 1923–1928)
Con McCarthy (Footscray 1925)
Harry Saunders (Footscray 1926)
Charles Tyson (North Melbourne 1928–1929)
John Harris (Hawthorn 1930–1931)
Jim Jackson (Hawthorn 1932)
Bill Twomey (Hawthorn 1933–1934)
Percy Rowe (Fitzroy 1935, Carlton 1937)
Syd Coventry (Footscray 1935–1937)
Charlie Dibbs (Geelong 1936)
Jack Knight (St Kilda 1941)
Jim Crowe (Footscray 1947)
Fred Froude (St Kilda 1948–1950)
Phonse Kyne (Collingwood 1950–1963)
Albert Pannam (Richmond 1953–1955)
Neil Mann (Collingwood 1960, 1967, 1972–1974)
Bob Rose (Collingwood 1964–1971, Footscray 1972–1975, Collingwood 1985–1986)
Ron Richards (Collingwood 1974)

I haven't had a chance to confirm, but it appears that the last senior coach who played at VFL level to not be able to be linked back to McHale this way is Gordon Rattray, who coached Fitzroy from 1936 to 1939. The last one of all might be Hugh Thomas, who coached St Kilda from 1944 to 1945 and never played at VFL level – though you'll never guess who he served as assistant coach under prior to that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thomas_(coach)

[think better]

[Gerry Cooper]

Dan Minogue certainly got around.

[David]

Yeah, I think he was kind of the Malcolm Blight of his day – though he certainly got a lot of mileage from his first two years with Richmond as captain-coach, when he won two flags! He never won another premiership after that (he coached Carlton to a losing grand final in 1932, but that was it).

People who know their early Collingwood history will know how much of a villain Minogue was seen as by supporters after turning his back on the club after World War I. The ire Jack Ginnivan's been receiving from Collingwood supporters in the past week seems pretty mild in comparison!

https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/players/dan-minogue/

[stui magpie]

Nice work. What about all the other current AFL coaches? Is there a link there for all of them?