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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ Russell was a magnificent player. His 1990 was one of the finest seasons ever played by a Collingwood midfielder. |
Tony Francis wasn't too bad either... but yes Russell was outstanding. _________________ All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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Post subject: Re: The concept of "luck" has no place in football | |
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Pies4shaw wrote: | People who aren't very good at things love to attribute failure to "bad luck". Chance does, of course, always play a part |
So, even before your rant dismissing 'bad luck' is over, you admit that 'bad luck' is a thing.
Sure, fine. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Pies2016 wrote: | Back in the 80s, I remember a number of very smart footy people subscribing to the general theory of “ you’re only as good as your worst player “
It probably first started with Mario Bortolotto.
In recent times I think more people are subscribing to the “ only as good as your best players “ theory.
Those stats would suggest it’s of more importance to have your best players playing at their best as opposed to your B graders playing to a higher level.
PS - he was a fine player, Scotty Russell. |
I've heard a similar theory around the bottom 6. It's the team with the better bottom 6 players that win grand finals _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002 Location: Springvale
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Stephen Milne would disagree with the OP, as would Barry Breen to balance it. _________________ Get back on top. |
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Damien
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999 Location: Croydon Vic
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Post subject: Re: The concept of "luck" has no place in football | |
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Redlight wrote: | Pies4shaw wrote: | People who aren't very good at things love to attribute failure to "bad luck". Chance does, of course, always play a part |
So, even before your rant dismissing 'bad luck' is over, you admit that 'bad luck' is a thing.
Sure, fine. |
Correct. Chance is just another word for luck. Golf, horse racing, cricket. Just like footy, luck can play a big part. We’ve had our share of both over the journey. Mostly bad though. _________________ 'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Location: Jacana
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Post subject: Re: The concept of "luck" has no place in football | |
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Damien wrote: | Redlight wrote: | Pies4shaw wrote: | People who aren't very good at things love to attribute failure to "bad luck". Chance does, of course, always play a part |
So, even before your rant dismissing 'bad luck' is over, you admit that 'bad luck' is a thing.
Sure, fine. |
Correct. Chance is just another word for luck. Golf, horse racing, cricket. Just like footy, luck can play a big part. We’ve had our share of both over the journey. Mostly bad though. |
Nah they're different.
Chance is something that just happens. Luck is something that happens to you.
It might look like a real subtle difference but it is quite profound once it clicks. |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Sevilla, Spain
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Brown played brilliant football in a number of spots. He didn’t play that much at FF |
Nobody mentioned FF
Brown kicked 49 goals in 18 games and was 2nd in our goalkicking by a mile... He more than tripled his career average _________________ https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ Russell was a magnificent player. His 1990 was one of the finest seasons ever played by a Collingwood midfielder. |
Tony Francis wasn't too bad either... but yes Russell was outstanding. |
beat me to it, what a great pick up those 2 were |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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And so to goals (11 of the top 20 performances were in Grand Final years):
McKenna 143 (1970)
Coventry 124 (1929)
Todd 121 (1939)
Todd 120 (1938)
Coventry 118 (1930)
Daicos 97 (1990)
Coventry 97 (1927)
Coventry 89 (1928)
Davis 88 (1979)
Coventry 88 (1935)
Coventry 83 (1926)
Notably, amongst the top 20, only Taylor (100, 1986) and Sav (93, 1995) achieved their feats in non-GF seasons but did not also have a "top 20" season in a GF year.
As R10.1998 observes, there have been some special seasons, too, by players who didn't have a "top 20" goal-kicking season. Apart from the Daicos/Brown 1990 effort that yielded 146 goals (and note that Barwick kicked a further 36 - easily the second-best return of his career and his best at Collingwood - and Manson 33, his career-best - so that the team kicked 404 for the season), others that come to my mind are Moore (76), Anderson (46) and Carman (41) (supported by Kink, 34, Maxy Richradson 31 and Twiggy 27) in 1977 (all either career highs or nearly so - and the team kicked 409 goals for the season) and 1981 (Daicos 76, Davis 55, both playing mostly off the HF flanks - and the team kicked 403 goals for the season). There are probably many others - but those are the ones that occur to me. |
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npalm
Joined: 01 May 2005
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^^ Shouldn't you be looking at 'average per game' rather than 'total for the season' figures?
In Grand Final years the the totals are going to be high because players played more games. Typically 25 or 26 games in a GF year compared to 22 games in a non-finals year.
The Marks figures for Tarrant in 2003 and 2004 are exceptional. And coincides with my memory of him as having the stickiest hands I've ever seen. I think people forget what a great talent he was. _________________ Side by side. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^ Well, you can look at it it any way you want. Tarrant was an exceptional footballer - one of a handful who carried us to the 2002 and 2003 Grand Finals. He got a gong on the previous page - he has the season record for most marks ever by a Collingwood player for his 2003.
My way of looking at it is just intended as a surrogate to identify players who had standout seasons in Grand Final years. |
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npalm
Joined: 01 May 2005
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^^ and there is also the fact that it's easier to play well and gather extra stats when you're in a really good side. And inversely it's harder to play well in a bad side. Especially for forwards.
Even the great McKenna would struggle to get a kick in our 2021 line up. _________________ Side by side. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^ But you wouldn't call that "bad luck" would you?
Also, Pete's nearly 75, so I doubt he'd be quite as sharp on the lead as he was. |
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002 Location: Springvale
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npalm wrote: | ^^ and there is also the fact that it's easier to play well and gather extra stats when you're in a really good side. And inversely it's harder to play well in a bad side. Especially for forwards.
Even the great McKenna would struggle to get a kick in our 2021 line up. |
He would be a 2.5 goal a game forward max with our delivery, and those goals probably from free kicks after the ball was bombed in and the defender panicked did something stupid. _________________ Get back on top. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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So, apart from Grundy (all the usual haters will be delighted to know that his 2021 - already and without him playing any further games this season - is number 19 for hit-outs, just shading Jolly's 2011), who do you think could have a "top 20" season in 2021? I'd have thought no-one because our team is largely awful in most positions. |
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