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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 am
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It’s Time to Make Your Own Face Mask

Here’s how to do it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/opinion/coronavirus-n95-mask.html

"But that doesn’t mean face masks for the public are a bad idea, if we had enough masks. Contrary to what American officials told us, many studies show that widespread mask-wearing might be a very effective complement to hand-washing, social-distancing and other measures to mitigate the pandemic. Health officials in China, Hong Kong, Singapore and Japan suggest that people wear masks in certain situations — if they’re symptomatic, for instance, or if they’re in crowded, not-very-well-ventilated places, like airplanes. Studies have also shown that mask-wearing (in conjunction with hand-washing) reduces the spread of infection within households or other shared living spaces, like residence halls.
...

Who knew the future would look so apocalyptically homespun — so “Mad Max” meets “Little House on the Prairie”? Yet this is no useless online fad; homemade masks for all could make a huge difference. At least two peer-reviewed studies* show that while DIY masks are not nearly as effective as commercial masks made for health care workers, they are far better than nothing. Homemade masks both limit the spread of infectious droplets in the air and discourage people from touching their faces."



https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/03/30/opinion-majoo-instructions/ef5965263d1d2b0d28064dcd85d95bba4f1be63d/instructions-600.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/2020/03/30/opinion-manjoo-mask/f3c16df99a3975b88b918dc766792f4388e63ba6/facemask.pdf


* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2440799/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/
258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:12 am
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Could we have 'dumbed down' our immune systems, by being too clean over the last few decades?

Growing up in the 70's, we ate dirt, we shared cool drink bottles, nobody wiped down surfaces with disinfectant, what was there.. Detol, mercurochrome or salt water. That was it.


Your Environment Is Cleaner. Your Immune System Has Never Been So Unprepared. March 12, 2019

A century ago, British scientists suggested a link between increased hygiene and allergic conditions — the first hint that our immune systems are becoming improperly “trained.”

“Our immune system needs a job,” Dr. Lemon said. “We evolved over millions of years to have our immune systems under constant assault. Now they don’t have anything to do.”

She isn’t alone. Leading physicians and immunologists are reconsidering the antiseptic, at times hysterical, ways in which we interact with our environment.

We survived over tens of thousands of years. Eventually, we washed our hands, swept our floors, cooked our food, avoided certain foods altogether. We improved the hygiene of the animals we raised and slaughtered for food.

A scientist who led efforts at the World Health Organization to develop global policy to limit use of antibiotics told me that, philosophically, this is a lesson that runs counter to a century of marketing: We’re not safer when we try to eliminate every risk from our environment.

“We have to get away from the idea of annihilating these things in our local environment. It just plays upon a certain fear,” said the scientist, Dr. Keiji Fukuda.

Particularly in the wealthier areas of the world, we purified our water, and developed plumbing and waste treatment plants; we isolated and killed bacteria and other germs.

The immune system’s enemies list was attenuated, largely for the good. Now, though, our bodies are proving that they cannot keep up with this change. We have created a mismatch between the immune system — one of the longest surviving and most refined balancing acts in the world — and our environment.

What does the immune system do when it’s not properly trained?

It can overreact. It becomes aggrieved by things like dust mites or pollen. It develops what we called allergies, chronic immune system attacks — inflammation — in a way that is counterproductive, irritating, even dangerous.

The percentage of children in the United States with a food allergy rose 50 percent between 1997–1999 and 2009–2011, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The jump in skin allergies was 69 percent during that period, leaving 12.5 percent of American children with eczema and other irritations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/health/immune-system-allergies.html

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:18 am
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20: A 95 year old woman in that same NSW nursing home has passed away. Sadly, she is the fifth resident of that nursing home to die of COVID-19.
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:31 am
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Gobsmancked ...

Carnival, the cruise operator (ir)responsible for, among other terrible things, the Ruby Princess disaster - 10% of Australia's Coronavirus cases and a number of deaths come from that one ship alone - the owner and operator of those vast, awful cruise ships under many different brands including Princess, Cunard, and P&O, Carnival, the walking financial basket case with its name ruined forever, with its ships rusting at the anchor or roaming the globe looking for a country stupid enough to let them dock, Carnival the largest operator in an industry facing ever-increasing blowback from overcrowded destination cities tired of being hammered by huge numbers of tourists ... yes that Carnival ...

... is asking investors to give it $6,000,000,000

Carnival is asking for $3 billion in bonds secured against its ships (which will be worthless when Carnival can't get passengers because the public fears cruise ships), $1.75 billion in convertible bonds (i.e., not really secured against anything - they convert to shares in the failing company if the company is failing), and the rest in equity (draw your own conclusion).

$6,000,000,000. The mind boggles.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/31/carnival-cruises-seeks-6bn-funding-amid-coronavirus-fallout

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:46 am
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Skids wrote:
Could we have 'dumbed down' our immune systems, by being too clean over the last few decades?

It's an unproven hypothesis for normal boring germs... but even if true there's no way it'd affect superbugs or covid-19 (or ebola, etc.).

Critics of this "hygiene hypothesis" say it's like believing that if you keep shooting yourself your skin will eventually become bullet-proof.

Personally, I'd look at environmental pollutants first as the culprit.


Last edited by K on Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:49 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
20: A 95 year old woman in that same NSW nursing home has passed away. Sadly, she is the fifth resident of that nursing home to die of COVID-19.


The youngest Australian to die from Covid-19 was 68. Most are in their 70's, 80's and 90's.

85% of flu deaths are people in this age bracket.

https://www.healthline.com/health/flu/flu-in-elderly-symptoms-complications

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:04 am
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Australian expat's push for universal mask-wearing catches fire in the US

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/australian-expat-s-push-for-universal-mask-wearing-catches-fire-in-the-us-20200401-p54fu2.html

"Calls for everyone to wear masks in public, regarded as fringe just a few days ago in the US, are fast gaining traction among senior policy-makers, including the federal government's top infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci.
...

Howard published a widely-read opinion article in The Washington Post on March 28 calling on all Americans to wear store-bought or homemade face masks when outside their home and has popularised the social media hashtag #Masks4All.
...

Howard's data research institute fast.ai found 34 scientific papers indicating that even rudimentary masks can be effective in reducing virus transmission in public - and none showing clear evidence that they do not.

He said masks are particularly useful in helping asymptomatic carriers from spreading COVID-19, as long as they wash their mask after use and practise good hygiene.

"When historians tally up the many misstep policymakers have made in response to the coronavirus pandemic, the senseless and unscientific push for the general public to avoid wearing masks should be near the top," he wrote in The Post.
...

"Australia should look to the folks in East Asia and copy what they are doing," he said.

"Although mask-wearing has not been a part of the culture in Australia, I think it could resonate with the Aussie spirit of looking after your mates."
...

Gao Fu, the director general of Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, recently said: "The big mistake in the US and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks.


"Droplets play a very important role - you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth.""
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:08 am
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Anyone else in a house full of "Essential Services" ?

Skids = Plumber, maintaining the arteries of civilisation since 1982.

Kelly = Education assistant (looking after a psycho kid, coz his parents can't handle him) in a school with about 30 of the 350 enrolled.

Jess = Child care worker, in a centre with 15 out of the usual 70 odd... there's as many staff as kids.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:13 am
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Howard's WaPo article:

Simple DIY masks could help flatten the curve. We should all wear them in public.

Got a T-shirt? You can make a mask at home.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/03/28/masks-all-coronavirus/

"At the height of the HIV crisis, authorities did not tell people to put away condoms. As fatalities from car crashes mounted, no one recommended avoiding seat belts. Yet in a global respiratory pandemic, people who should know better are discouraging Americans from using respiratory protection.
...

Studies have documented definitively that in controlled environments like airplanes, people with masks rarely infect others and rarely become infected themselves, while those without masks more easily infect others or become infected themselves.
...

Hospitals running short of N95-rated masks are turning to homemade cloth masks themselves; if it’s good enough to use in a hospital, it’s good enough for a walk to the store.

The reasons the WHO cites for its anti-mask advice are based not on science but on three spurious policy arguments. First, there are not enough masks for hospital workers. Second, masks may themselves become contaminated and pass on an infection to the people wearing them. Third, masks could encourage people to engage in more risky behavior.

None of these is a good reason to avoid wearing a mask in public.
...

It’s true that masks can become contaminated. But better a mask gets contaminated than the person who is wearing it. It is not hard to wash or dispose of a mask at the end of the day and then wash hands thoroughly to prevent a contaminated mask from spreading infection.

Finally, the idea that masks encourage risky behavior is nonsensical. We give cars anti-lock brakes and seat belts despite the possibility that people might drive more riskily knowing the safety equipment is there. ...

Many authorities still advise only people with symptoms to wear masks. But this doesn’t help with a disease like covid-19, since a person who does not yet show symptoms can still be contagious. A study in Iceland, where there has been unprecedented levels of testing, found that “about half of those who tested positive [for covid-19] are nonsymptomatic,” according to Iceland’s chief epidemiologist, Thorolfur Gudnason.
...

Community use of masks alone is not enough to stop the spread. Restrictions on movement and commerce need to stay in place until hospital systems clearly are able to handle the patient load. Then, we need a rigorous system of contact tracing, testing and quarantine of those potentially infected.

Given the weight of evidence, it seems likely that universal mask wearing should be a part of the solution. Every single one of us can make it happen — starting today."
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:48 am
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Why the heck are people still overseas and on holiday overseas? Those morons cycling around Peru. FFS, if they didn't heed the warnings weeks ago, don't go bitching about the lack of Government support now that you cant find a flight home.
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:55 am
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Skids wrote:
Could we have 'dumbed down' our immune systems, by being too clean over the last few decades?

Growing up in the 70's, we ate dirt, we shared cool drink bottles, nobody wiped down surfaces with disinfectant, what was there.. Detol, mercurochrome or salt water. That was it.


Your Environment Is Cleaner. Your Immune System Has Never Been So Unprepared. March 12, 2019

A century ago, British scientists suggested a link between increased hygiene and allergic conditions — the first hint that our immune systems are becoming improperly “trained.”

“Our immune system needs a job,” Dr. Lemon said. “We evolved over millions of years to have our immune systems under constant assault. Now they don’t have anything to do.”

She isn’t alone. Leading physicians and immunologists are reconsidering the antiseptic, at times hysterical, ways in which we interact with our environment.

We survived over tens of thousands of years. Eventually, we washed our hands, swept our floors, cooked our food, avoided certain foods altogether. We improved the hygiene of the animals we raised and slaughtered for food.

A scientist who led efforts at the World Health Organization to develop global policy to limit use of antibiotics told me that, philosophically, this is a lesson that runs counter to a century of marketing: We’re not safer when we try to eliminate every risk from our environment.

“We have to get away from the idea of annihilating these things in our local environment. It just plays upon a certain fear,” said the scientist, Dr. Keiji Fukuda.

Particularly in the wealthier areas of the world, we purified our water, and developed plumbing and waste treatment plants; we isolated and killed bacteria and other germs.

The immune system’s enemies list was attenuated, largely for the good. Now, though, our bodies are proving that they cannot keep up with this change. We have created a mismatch between the immune system — one of the longest surviving and most refined balancing acts in the world — and our environment.

What does the immune system do when it’s not properly trained?

It can overreact. It becomes aggrieved by things like dust mites or pollen. It develops what we called allergies, chronic immune system attacks — inflammation — in a way that is counterproductive, irritating, even dangerous.

The percentage of children in the United States with a food allergy rose 50 percent between 1997–1999 and 2009–2011, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The jump in skin allergies was 69 percent during that period, leaving 12.5 percent of American children with eczema and other irritations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/health/immune-system-allergies.html


It explains these pretend allergies like asthma and peanuts. Should just force feed every kid peanut sandwiches for a whole school year...bingo...no more peanut allergies.

That's all we ate during primary school and not one kid with peanut allergies.
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Skids Cancer

Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:59 am
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On the masks. Don't see too many people wearing them here in Perth.
Saw 2 yesterday when I was in the shopping centre.
I've got half a dozen, good quality (3M) P2 masks, nobody in my house wants to wear one.

Just been advised, my employer has secured thousands of the new 15 minute tests and we will all be tested before boarding our flight on the 13th (The first 4 week on shift) and those returning home will also be tested.

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Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:14 am
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What'sinaname wrote:
It explains these pretend allergies like asthma and peanuts. Should just force feed every kid peanut sandwiches for a whole school year...bingo...no more peanut allergies.

That's all we ate during primary school and not one kid with peanut allergies.

I don’t know whether this is a joke, or you are being deliberately provocative or you have some kind of empathetic disorder?
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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free

PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:40 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
What'sinaname wrote:
It explains these pretend allergies like asthma and peanuts. Should just force feed every kid peanut sandwiches for a whole school year...bingo...no more peanut allergies.

That's all we ate during primary school and not one kid with peanut allergies.

I don’t know whether this is a joke, or you are being deliberately provocative or you have some kind of empathetic disorder?


Review the science behind this and you tell me - on the peanuts......not the asthma.
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:42 am
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Pies4shaw wrote:
What'sinaname wrote:
It explains these pretend allergies like asthma and peanuts. Should just force feed every kid peanut sandwiches for a whole school year...bingo...no more peanut allergies.

That's all we ate during primary school and not one kid with peanut allergies.

I don’t know whether this is a joke, or you are being deliberately provocative or you have some kind of empathetic disorder?


It IS best to give very young children peanuts, eggs, honey etc. It's quite possible that parents avoiding giving these foods to their children at all is contributing to future allergies.

I took the rest as hyperbole, at least I hope it is Shocked
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