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burnsy17
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
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CarringbushCigar wrote: | burnsy17 wrote: | Boo fking hoo Cloke!
Seriously, the guy has been shite for 18 months. Gets dropped twice. Has to protect his ego so he might as well crack the shites at the coach... Of course it's the coaches fault he can't get a kick.
He's a head case.
But let's blame Buckley. |
Sorry - please remind us what the actual job of the senior coach is ? |
no idea - I'm just a pleb on an Internet forum. Why don't you tell me? _________________ Beware the swooping Magpie. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Location: Benalla
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BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!
Damir Cloke is now prepared to accept a 10 year 20 million dollar contract. _________________ Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Bob Sugar wrote: | BREAKING NEWS!!!!!!
Damir Cloke is now prepared to accept a 10 year 20 million dollar contract. |
sounds great.
what a bargain.
Will he throw in Travs two brothers for another turn. _________________ we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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Sad part but all this is we are concentrating on Cloke yet hardly any mention of our leaky defence and game plan.
Let's see what we dish up Monday.
Cloke is not the problem!!! _________________ COLLINGW09D |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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BEAMER09 wrote: | Sad part but all this is we are concentrating on Cloke yet hardly any mention of our leaky defence and game plan.
Let's see what we dish up Monday.
Cloke is not the problem!!! |
I don't think that is the issue. The issue is that most of us assumed the he might be a big part of the solution.
He is as capable as White and Cox of providing us with a White or Cox type performance. And when given the chance, if we are honest, he has been at least as good as those two. Not much, except for a few good touches here and there (in the case of Cox, we love him every time he performs a regular football type play - isnt the standard low these days). However, he used to be capable of taking over a game and making us appear unstoppable. i think people are having a hard time accepting that this isnt going to happen any more and we need to wait for Moore to get another year or two under his belt before we can expect a routinely dominant forward. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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On the March
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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Show us Travis why we should keep you - cause at the moment I can't see it - despite all that you have done before. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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On the March wrote: | Show us Travis why we should keep you - cause at the moment I can't see it - despite all that you have done before. |
if it turns out that his body is not broken and that he is simply trying to get his contract extended, that would be a bad development. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I've read through the various opinions here some really weird some really interesting and some really accurate.
For mine his mental fragility is the most damning stat.
When he's on he's great when he's not he's horrid simple and has been this way his whole career.
In saying that he was far from our worst last week. I actually thought it might be time to give Cox a break and play Cloke as a deep FF still gives Witts a game as second ruck and Grundy can play forward as required.
All this argument about his salary is irrelevant as it's already been mostly paid now. The only part of his salary that should concern anyone at the club is what he gets paid in 2017 and I think that's part of the issue as well. It's a known fact he had to trigger certain criteria to get the same dollars. I don't know what those criteria is/was (no part was games played though it was all about output on field) but he was only triggered part of the contract worth a reported $400k well short of he's current reported salary.
For a guy so mentally fragile as Cloke not being able to trigger the parts of his contract to ensure he got his full whack would be hard.
Couple that with his sensational decision to send dick pics to some strange woman he met online and the issues this would have created in his house and I'm guessing but pretty confident is saying his mother wouldn't have been overly happy seeing her sons penis splashed across the front pages of a national woman's magazine.
Personally I think the club was hoping by selecting him last week he would come out and really show he has that desire to be a senior player again. The teams performance didn't help him nor the weather but his level of desire wasn't visible either.
Do I believe for one second he's a better player for his time in the seconds no way do I think another stint will improve him again to be a senior player nope it won't.
This could be the sad end to a player who at his best was the king of CHF in the past several years. |
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neil
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Location: Queensland
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Lets see Travis has had problems kicking goals
Malthouse tried to fix it
Every forward coach under Malthouse tried to fix it
Specialist goal kickers were brought in
Buckley tried to fix it
Every forward coach under Buckley tried to fix it
Specialist goal kickers were brought in
Yet it is Buckleys fault _________________ Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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themonk
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
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I don't believe the game has gone past him and physically he seems to be in good condition, however mentally he is shot at Collingwood, he is now too fragile and the pressure too great.
Clokey would be a decent pick up for an interstate club, I doubt he'd fetch a 1st round pick, maybe a late one but potentially 2 x 2nd round picks would be fair.
From a Collingwood perspective it would free up salary space and bring in some much needed early picks, we may not have a 1st round pick next year but 4 x 2nd round picks would be great (I assume we have 1 for Freeman?). |
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chicken wing
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
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RudeBoy wrote: | David wrote: | I know a coach is obliged to put the best 22 on the park, and no player should feel like they're guaranteed a spot by virtue of their name, but this somehow just feels like an exercise in public humiliation now. It really doesn't sit well. |
Pleeeaaassse! FFS, here is a guy who was dropped for poor form, went back to the VFL and played mostly ordinary football, was then brought back into the team when no-one else was available, but played very ordinary footy again, kicking one lousy point. If we want to win on monday, we needed to drop him, as we showed against the Lions, Cats and Dogs, that we are a much better team without Cloke. Whether it's his head, his back, his legs, or just wear and tear, he has all the hallmarks of a spent force. Get over it David. He's been dropped. It happens. |
Spot on. We're at the stage where Buckley and the club are damned if they do and damned if they don't. With the odd exception, Cloke has been a liability for two years. There are only so many times the team can work it's collective ass off to get the ball forward, only to see Cloke miss yet another gimme goal. He has not been performing his primary task well, which is to kick goals. It is irrelevant to point to his form of three years ago, and totally ridiculous to suggest there is a conspiracy of some sort. Right now he is a hack and doesn't deserve a game ahead of Cox (a veteran of four games!). FFS, he got pantsed by a newbie against Port! |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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I though Cloke was trying hard last week - but his form was poor. His confidence is shot and he almost cost us a precious goal when he was over zealous in his tackling.
It really is a pity it has come to this - I would have played him this week and used Daniher as an inspiration to help put his angsts in life in perspective. He probably has one more chance to do something right before the end of the year - he still might be traded though and that is a pity.
I would like to see Cloke lose some weight and get more run into his game - play him further up the ground and get him crashing into the mids at centre bounces now and then - even losing some weight he is still huge - but I am not sure after last weekend if he still has the hunger - he looks lost and his energy is all over the place. He has lost focus and I am not sure if he will get back on track?
Hope he rips it apart in the magoos! _________________ Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Well, no he hasn't been a liability for two years. He was good until the middle of last season. This time last year, he'd kicked about 3 goals per game over 11 matches. He hasn't done much, since - but it is not that long ago that he was dominating his position. He has played 238 games. In his 226th, he kicked 7 goals against Melbourne (and received 3 Brownlow votes). In his 227th, he kicked 5.2 against GWS (and received a Brownlow vote). In his 229th, he had 16 kicks, 11 marks and 4 handballs against the team that has won the last three premierships - he kicked dreadfully for goal that day but his game was otherwise outstanding. He then had a poor game against Port. After that, he was injured very early in the West Coast game (he was on the ground for about 10 minutes). He then missed 3 matches with his injury and played under duress in rounds 21 and 22 before he succumbed to his injury and was done for 2015. You would also see that, eg, Elliott had 24 goals by round 10 last year and then managed only 11 goals in his last 10 games. Similarly, White had 18 goals by round 11 and then managed 9 in the second half of the season - mostly because he was dropped between rounds 17 and 22.
Cloke might be finished, he might not. I don't know and I Have nothing to say on that subject. What staggers me, though, is the way that posters continue to pretend that he's been useless for years. He really hasn't and pretending that he has been doesn't improve the quality of the discussion. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Well, no he hasn't been a liability for two years. He was good until the middle of last season. This time last year, he'd kicked about 3 goals per game over 11 matches. He hasn't done much, since - but it is not that long ago that he was dominating his position. He has played 238 games. In his 226th, he kicked 7 goals against Melbourne (and received 3 Brownlow votes). In his 227th, he kicked 5.2 against GWS (and received a Brownlow vote). In his 229th, he had 16 kicks, 11 marks and 4 handballs against the team that has won the last three premierships - he kicked dreadfully for goal that day but his game was otherwise outstanding. He then had a poor game against Port. After that, he was injured very early in the West Coast game (he was on the ground for about 10 minutes). He then missed 3 matches with his injury and played under duress in rounds 21 and 22 before he succumbed to his injury and was done for 2015. You would also see that, eg, Elliott had 24 goals by round 10 last year and then managed only 11 goals in his last 10 games. Similarly, White had 18 goals by round 11 and then managed 9 in the second half of the season - mostly because he was dropped between rounds 17 and 22.
Cloke might be finished, he might not. I don't know and I Have nothing to say on that subject. What staggers me, though, is the way that posters continue to pretend that he's been useless for years. He really hasn't and pretending that he has been doesn't improve the quality of the discussion. |
great post.
further gives fuel to the theory that a gradual decline/loss of consistency of performance coupled with the mental issues associated with engagement/dick pics and accompanying media scrutiny (which i imagine would be nothing compared to fiancee/familys hurt/disappointment/anger) has seen Trav lose all confidence.
He doesnt strike me a s the brightest button in the box- so rather than being able to step back and take responsibility- excuses are sought or simply his head is buried in the sand.
The new pushing in the back rule bought in a couple of years ago was meant to help Travis- yet for some reason, every other key forward seemed to benefit except Trav.
It must be frustrating to go to your job every week and be handicapped - playing by different rules- 2/3 defenders hanging off him and rarely a free.
And let's not forget who constantly went into bat for him- Buckley.
Personally, I think a decent holiday away from the public eye would likely do his head the world of good- get him to take a look at himself and figure out his head.
Hope to see him back firing at some point. |
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chicken wing
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Well, no he hasn't been a liability for two years. He was good until the middle of last season. This time last year, he'd kicked about 3 goals per game over 11 matches. He hasn't done much, since - but it is not that long ago that he was dominating his position. He has played 238 games. In his 226th, he kicked 7 goals against Melbourne (and received 3 Brownlow votes). In his 227th, he kicked 5.2 against GWS (and received a Brownlow vote). In his 229th, he had 16 kicks, 11 marks and 4 handballs against the team that has won the last three premierships - he kicked dreadfully for goal that day but his game was otherwise outstanding. He then had a poor game against Port. After that, he was injured very early in the West Coast game (he was on the ground for about 10 minutes). He then missed 3 matches with his injury and played under duress in rounds 21 and 22 before he succumbed to his injury and was done for 2015. You would also see that, eg, Elliott had 24 goals by round 10 last year and then managed only 11 goals in his last 10 games. Similarly, White had 18 goals by round 11 and then managed 9 in the second half of the season - mostly because he was dropped between rounds 17 and 22.
Cloke might be finished, he might not. I don't know and I Have nothing to say on that subject. What staggers me, though, is the way that posters continue to pretend that he's been useless for years. He really hasn't and pretending that he has been doesn't improve the quality of the discussion. |
Yes, like I said, with the odd exception. Having the occasional day out does not indicate he has dominated his position. The last time he dominated his position, which requires a sustained run of above average performances, is 2013. I can go through the stats too and find that Jesse White kicked 3 goals or more on 5 occasions in 2013 (for Sydney). Does that mean he dominated his position? And kicking the odd bag of goals doesn't make Cloke less of a liability if his regular easy misses and out-on-the-fulls cause the team to lose momentum.
I've got nothing against Cloke and at his peak, every side would have loved to have him. The problem I see is that he is a not a smart footballer who can adjust his game as his body starts to fail him (in terms of injury, speed, endurance and all the other signs of aging). Someone of his experience should be outsmarting and out-positioning (and therefore dominating) rookie opponents and making things easier for Moore to learn his trade. Instead, he is heaping pressure on Moore through under-performance.
So, in the interests of 'quality' discussion, make some comment on his performance against a rookie opponent, of his propensity to miss easy shots on goal and the effect that might have on his team mates and the way we structure the side, of the fact that a four-gamer in Cox looks better, and of his fondness to 'announce' to the media his latest hard luck story and project a 'look at me, look at me' persona in a team environment. |
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