Work Choices MKII

[Wokko]

Minimum wage doesn't give low end workers a 'liveable wage', it prices them out of the market and leaves them unemployed. Why would someone on the dole care if a boss is driving a BMW when they're catching the bus to a job network provider?

All the focus is on people who earn a lot vs the middle classes, none of whom are effected by minimum wage laws. The laws impact the bottom of the social classes by denying employment to low skilled workers.

“A minimum wage law is, in reality, a law that makes it illegal for an employer to hire a person with limited skills.” - Milton Friedman

[Culprit]

^^There's the Liberal thing, we should be grateful to have a job even if it is $2 an hour.

[Wokko]

[Tannin]

Good misleading Liberal propaganda there, Wokko. What you are not showing is the average standard of living for those people, whether employed or not, and once you look at that you see that, under your lunatic scheme to throw away all that we have achieved over the last 200 years, abolishing the protection of a minimum wage simply substitutes the misery of poverty while unemployed for the misery of poverty while having to work as well. Not only are the unemployed no better off (makes no difference whether you get bugger-all income 'coz you're unemployed or bugger-all income 'coz you get paid $2 an hour), but everybody else is worse-off too 'coz no-one earns a decent living even when tey are working. Except the richest 50%, of course, and especially the richest 5% - they are laughing all the way too the bank.

[Wokko]

Good misleading union/socialist propaganda there, Tannin. The figures in countries comparable to ours without minimum wages don't back up your rhetoric. Also add to the above Switzerland (recently knocked back a proposal for a huge minimum wage) and Singapore.

I would rather see those people living in abject poverty due to our insanely high minimum wage be able to earn a living. Personally I've taken cash jobs for below minimum wage because it was the only employment I could find at the time. If I'd demanded my 'rights' then I would've been on $200 a week. The people good enough to give me these jobs had to break the law in order to do so.

[Lazza]

[Culprit]

I didn't say Liberal Voter, "that's the Liberal Thing". People earn less means people spend less means the economy is in worse shape but the Rich can clean up on mortgage defaults as people will default. Oh hang on the Liberal spin is the bosses will employ more people, they never have and never will. Oh hang on more Liberal Spin, the costs of goods will drop, ah yes we all get to see that beauty for what it is.

Now Holden and Ford closed because the dollar was to high and mean the Labour costs were too high. Bang the dollar is now below US 80 cents and they are not rushing to keep them open. What we have is misleading bullshit put out by the Rich to screw the poor over even more and there is no surprise we have the Born to Rule mob in power leading the way.

Apathetic Australians are finally waking up.

[Wokko]

Higher wages lead to inflation, inflation destroys savings. Higher wages lead to higher costs. It is WAY more expensive to live in Australia than almost anywhere else in the world.

Also you say that having no minimum wage doesn't lead to more jobs when I provided evidence to back up the assertion that in fact it does lead to more jobs and lower unemployment, particularly youth unemployment. I then gave the European countries, all with high standards of living that do not have minimum wages.

[3.14159]

[stui magpie]

As predictable as night following day, a Lib government commissions a review into IR and the Unions put their PR machine into overdrive, disguising supposition as fact and shrieks to all and sundry about Workchoices mk II.

And just as predictably the faithful fall into line, joining in the flagellation and frothing as if there was actually something of substance to rail against. As if rather than merely having the terms of reference of a review to be conducted, the review had been conducted legislation framed and passed through the senate and was about to be enacted.

The Union PR machine is good. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, but they're real good.

Lets be clear, some things need to be reviewed in the IR framework and it aint gonna be done by Labor, not with their union masters staring over their shoulders. The IR reform will come from the Libs and then next time Labor is in they get to repeal the really bad bits, keep the good bits as the unions don't have a case and tweak the bits in the middle.

Howards workplace reforms were generally pretty good until he went overboard in his last term. Then when Krudd got in he actually did a good job in re-writing the legislation. He kept and expanded on the Award reform process Howard started leading to a massive simplification of the Industrial environment. He was able to do that because Howard had already broken the previous environment and started the rebuild. Krudd was able to insert a few tweaks and finish a job that Labor would have never been able to start, and finish it with an overall good and fair outcome across the board.

The unions were happy enough at the start as they got the main thing they wanted, individual contracts removed, enshrining their monopoly yet again. Still, as soon as they managed to install their preferred option, Jules in the chair, they got her to quickly slide through a few more little tweaks which probably only people who work in IR would recognise the significance off.

So everyone feel free to run around and cry that the sky is falling, you're behaving exactly as expected. It's all part of the cycle.

[3.14159]

And here's Stui dishing it out to Rudd, Gillard and the Unions...again.

This thread is dead, buried and cremated.

[Wokko]

[stui magpie]

[Tannin]

[Joel]