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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure I agree with your assumptions, like a sacrificial offering to assuage the British entertainment industry's collective guilt and shame for turning a blind eye to or condoning such behaviour on a widespread basis for the past half-century.
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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:01 am
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Mugwump wrote:
Take away context, and you subtract most of the meaning of any event. And while revenge is indeed an ugly emotion, where does retributive justice end and revenge take over ?


Alternatively, add context and, perhaps, we are given the opportunity to start excusing the act as being not as bad as we intuitively know it is. You do not need context or backstory to be disturbed by hearing about a man being cruelly beaten and killed and so long as you can imagine that he may have done everything or nothing, I suspect that is the most ethically sound reaction.

In response to your question, the extent of valid retribution can really be adjusted to your taste. If you think torture should be prohibited in an ordinary judicial context, then thats probably where you would draw the line. If you oppose capital punishment, as I do, then you would presumably oppose the killing of captured enemy combatants. And if you care about due process, you would seek for it to be applied in these cases too.

Nonetheless, in this case, without documentation and people wielding proud ISIS member lanyards, I doubt the inquisitors would ever have any cast-iron proof either in many cases, they would at best be working from hearsay and at worst from pure guesswork. In some cases, like the Soviet soldiers who raped their way through the women of Berlin, all they would need is someone to catch their eye for whatever reason. Such is war.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:18 am
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^ well, Im afraid disturbance is relative to context. I felt queasy at the video of Muammar Gaddafi being beaten and killed, but there is a level at which i was able to rationalize it as rough justice. I did not like it, but it was less disturbing than ISs videos (I imagine, as I have not seen one, fortunately)

What the article depicts is wrong, whatever the man had done ; but the level of injustice is clearly dependent on context.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:08 am
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Iraq declares victory over ISIS:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/09/iraq-formally-declares-end-to-fight-against-islamic-state

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Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:27 am
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Great result. Now, we just have to sort out the Iraqis and then this particular country is nearly not a problem (much, really).
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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:29 pm
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David wrote:
Iraq declares victory over ISIS:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/09/iraq-formally-declares-end-to-fight-against-islamic-state

Great news.

I've also read in the wider conflict that Russia is withdrawing troops from Syria.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:14 pm
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Indeed: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-syria-troop-withdrawal-vladimir-putin-assad-regime-civil-war-rebels-isis-air-force-a8103071.html

Blood-soaked mission accomplished.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:34 pm
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Stopped Syria from descending into a Libya style failed state (where blacks are sold as slaves in open air markets, THANKS USA), defeated ISIS and prevented the war escalating into a regional conflict. Had a goal and an exit strategy. The USA and Australia could take notes from the Russian intervention; they did it much better.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:22 pm
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^ I have a lot of sympathy with that view, Wokko. The people opposed to Assad seem every bit as monstrous as he. That our leaders thought it wise to be allied with them against what had been a functioning order in Syria is testament to their historical ignorance, recklessness and bravado. I do not like Putin, but in this instance he has probably acted for the terrible best.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:27 pm
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What do you like?
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stui magpie 

Oh the Premiership's a cakewalk


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: preparing the Pilosocereus suppository

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:11 am
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And nearly 18 months later, it looks like ISIS may finally be put down. At least in it's current incarnation.

This is quite an informative piece https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-25/the-battle-for-islamic-states-final-territory-in-baghouz-syria/10882816

This battle may be won but the idea isn't dead and there are still cashed up believers who will keep trying, unfortunately.

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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:16 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
And nearly 18 months later, it looks like ISIS may finally be put down. At least in it's current incarnation.

This is quite an informative piece https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-25/the-battle-for-islamic-states-final-territory-in-baghouz-syria/10882816

This battle may be won but the idea isn't dead and there are still cashed up believers who will keep trying, unfortunately.

True, but I think ISIS will now revert back to insurgency tactics after the fall of the caliphate.

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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 10:21 pm
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Baghdadi resurfaces after five years.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/29/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-appears-in-video-for-first-time-in-five-years

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