The Pies aren't what they used to be

[Charlie]

On the money guys. The young ones don't realise the performance required both on and off the field to be a good side.

Remember how St. Kilda and Fitzroy
supporters would take heart because they "only lost by 25 points today, and the guys really had a dip".

We Collingwood supporters could only pity them. When we lost we thought "how the the hell did we loose that one ?"

Even if we lost finals, as bad as they were, we could at least feel satisfied that we got value though the year.

Given our performance on and off the field over the last few years ,I don't understand how some supporters can bag eddie and MM on trivial matters.

Before they came we were dire straights, I felt deflated as a supporter (and member), not only had we lost our 'status' but we were falling further and further behind.

Complacency got us in that position, and further complacency would have made us merger material.

Now we are building on and off the ground. Whether we win or loose , I feel we are heading in the right direction.

I am gratefull that we are once again a club who wants to win, and who wants to be on top.
I do not want anything less.

[Magpie mick]

magpie Greg,Alf Andrews and Charlie, you guys are so correct we must bring back this culture ( as supporters) that we are a winning football team and not stand for anything less.AS you guys mentioned,at least under the Hafey eara we were brilliant during the 6 months of the home and away season and could thump any team any time, for approx 5 years.And I do remember when Fitzroy fans would always say " at least we had a red hot go " or something like that.
Lets hope we dont go down that path.

[I@n S]

I say we have nothing to worrie about. We'll be back to our best in no time. So chin Up

[AlfAndrews]

In recent years it has become common for clubs to make sudden and dramatic improvement. (St.Kilda, Adelaide and Bulldogs in 1997; Melbourne in 1998; Brisbane last year) Looking at our list for the coming season, I'd say its our turn. At the very least we'll be on the fringes of the 8. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us make a Preliminary or even a Grand Final.

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**floreat pica**

[Sly]

"Nothing's the same anymore."
- Commander Sinclair.

Problems in recent years have resulted from woeful Administration and "poor" Coaching.

Using "poor" is a bit harsh; I was one of Tony unShaw's biggest critics, but realistically he was completely out of his depth and simply didn't have the arsenal, experience and depth to fall back on as a coach.

When I say that, I'm not referring to the players at his disposal. I'm referring to Shaw himself as the Coach. Experienced Coaches with a good grounding usually have a trick or two up their sleeve to re-motivate the Team, get them going again, put the wheels back on, etc.

When experienced Coaches fail in that regard, then their time is up. I recall Leigh Matthews declaring, "I'd shoot the players if I could" in 95 after a poor performance. Well, obviously Leigh was at the end of his tether, but Leigh had exhausted his arsenal 2 years earlier.

When things go wrong, though, it's a matter of getting back up. Look at Melbourne: great first Season under the Neale Daniher-Diamond Joe regime, poor last year. Who cares what happens to them, but it illustrates that there are periods where every Team hits a wall and it's up to the Coach to find the right answers.

Tony unShaw never did and fell to gross experimentation - "gross" both in the context of "amount" and "type." While under the regime of the Kevin Rose Boy's Club, he was always going to be safe and they - Shaw and the Boy's Club - were to Collingwood's detriment.

This year a lot of these things have been rectified.

1) Firstly, the Administration under Eddie is being run on a business standpoint instead of a Boy's Club. Success will equal money and stature. Also, while Kevin Rose may have played for Collingwood and bled for Collingwood, being who he was I don't think he brought in the same primal, animalistic passion of a supporter - such as Eddie - disgusted with mediocrity.

2) Drafting/trading: in 99 - before and after unShaw - our trading and drafting seemed haphazard. We seemed to be taking players on "availibility" (such as Barry Mitchell), instead of who we really required, (otherwise we'd have an established Ruckman by now, for example).

Through the Y2Malty Draft, we have traded and drafted for the positions we've required. Granted, some of these guys are a bit green, but at least those spots have been addressed.

3) Coaching: well, I've said Tony unShaw was out of his depth. At least Y2Malty brings experience to the table. Each player seems to be thriving, propspering and evolving because Y2Malty's given them definition and purpose. Under unShaw, it seemed the players never knew where they'd be or what was expected of them.

4) Youth Coaching: it's an indictment on the Shaw reign that virtually none of the youth came up under his tenure. Sure, Tarrant played a few good Quarters last year, but the youth who put their hands up were more the naturally talented, as opposed to the sort who worked hard and to prominence.

Under the new regime, Prestigacomo no longer looks like a rectangular block; he has muscle and definition and appears to be a very competent and improving Full-back. Tuckey's stepped up after doing very little for two years.

"Bugsy" Kinnear, who was rumored to have asked unShaw to play in the back-line, is finally there and something of a revelation. Jacotine looks a little lost at the moment, but I watched training on Monday and after the session Y2Malty spent one-on-one time with him. (Y2Malty seemed to be giving him tips on hips and shoulders and how to scoop the ball and run on with it while breaking any incumbent tackles).

5) Finally, there is a feeling of "revitalization" around the Club, whereas in 98 and 99, it was a case of, "Here we go again." I think a lot of supporters were praying for some sort of divine revelation to galvanize the Club.

Now, supporters are confident. We'll never be a Fitzroy, St. Kilda or whoever, because even when we're bad, we're still turning out the numbers.

Players are also more confident; they're far more vocal, supportive and assured of themselves. Also, with the trading, many of them are finding they're not guaranteed a spot because there's somebody right at their heels. That healthy competition/rivalry is a great motivator.

Keep the faith.

Last year when we were crap we ran the Kangaroos and Brisbane (over there) close, and we always match-up well against Essendon. That's the Top 3 teams.

The only matches where we suffered poundings were against Richmond the first time (but we pounded them back and destroyed their final's chances in the re-encounter) and the very final match against Brisbane, where Brisbane were really motoring along and, I think, our guys just wanted to see the Season to end.

The only concern - at the moment - is Carlton. They gave us a pounding, although there's very little you can do when Simon Beaumont (and unShaw started Godden on him) kicks 8 in the first half.

But the Bluegirls have had our number over recent years. Here's hoping that'll change. When you look at last year overall, though, we weren't humiliated or embarrassed week-in and week-out. Yeah, we had a few bad matches, but most of the time we were competitive.

Now add at least 25% improvement to that - which we apparently have, (and again I stress at least).

Keep the faith; irrespective of the Season, at least now we're heading in the right direction.

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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

[Sly]

Magpie Greg, I actually had this selfsame discussion with one of the other Rantists from The Collingwood Rant, Yaddum Tikfa, just a few days ago.

He shared your standpoint that if we continued to fail on the field and with seasonal performances overall, attendances would continue to drop and we could inevitably face the threat of becoming like Fitzroy.

One of the things which has kept Collingwood strong throughout the lean periods has been their extremely rich and proud heritage. I don't mean to descry Fitzroy, but no other Football Club has the stature of Collingwood.

True, the concern is that the last Final's appearance was 94, and we've been especially lean since then. But it was only really last year where we showed a drop in attendances - but not necessarily in membership.

I'd like to consider that things are on the improve and that we'd turn our fortunes around well before security of the Club's future became a concern. We'd really need to flop miserably for the next couple of years to see that happen, and I can't see us reproducing the form and results of 99 repeatedly.

The most significant change, though, is the Administration/Management and Coaching. Since 92, the Administration became complacement and the "hand-off" from Big Al to the Kevin Rose Boy's Club did nothing to galvanize the Club, nor did the appointment of Tony Shaw.

Now there are people there making things happen that won't allow the nightmare of 95-onwards (or really 91-onwards, because we really should have capitalized on 90 the way Hawthorn did in the 80's) to reoccur. There's no more complaceny because it really is a battle to survive, even when you're successful - as the Roos have demonstrated.

Similarly with the Western Bulldogs - they've been relatively successful in the latter half of the 90's and continued to flubber along to the point where their own President admits facing potential extinction.

I've always had...faith, but this year, I'm also feeling the return of confidence, (unheard of under Tony Shaw), and I'm sure are finding that renewed passion. If we'd had seasons like the Roos or Bulldogs, our membership would be above 40 thousand.

As for finding a player other than Buckley to capture the imagination of the supporters, I think the emergence of Betheras, Tarrant, "Bugsy" Kinnear (if he continues his good form at CHB), Rogan Josh Fraser and "Neon" Leon Davis - just to name a few - will inspire a whole legion of new fans.

Keep the faith.

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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

[Broadie]

Just a few quibbles with some of the past 2 days' postings:

SLY: Barry Mitchell was a trade under the Leigh Matthews regime (1992 or 93). Otherwise your comments are spot on.

ALF: The teams you mentioned were all filled with proven players and good lists who had severely under-performed in the year prior to their rise. We have very few proven players and an extremely young list. If we can make it to 10th, then Malthouse & Co have done a sterling job. Anyone expecting higher than that is setting themselves up for a big disappointment.

HAving said that, if we manage a spot in the 8, then no-one will be able to shut me up or stop me singing "Good Old Colingwood Forever" for a LOOOOOONG time.

PREDICTIONS:
- Finish 5th - 8th in 2001
- Top 4 for 2002 - 2005, with a flag (not the one Eddie pulled down at VIC PARK and delivered one og his "non-core" promises about the Long March up Hoddle ST to the 'G)

[Sly]

Broadie, just a clarification about my reference to Barry Mitchell.

Up to 1990, we drafted and traded beautifully to build our Premiership team. We needed Rovers, we got Francis and Russell, tall backs, we got Kelly and Christian, atop of the young guys we built from the Under 19's.

In 91, we had Williams coming up and guys like Mark Richardson, Jason McCartney, Andrew Pascoe, Troy Lehman in the Reserves. (Yeah, I know most of them have fizzled out, but at the time it was looking good).

But once we won that Premiership, it seemed we forgot about looking toward the future and decided we could get anybody - such as guys like Barry Mitchell, Justin Staritski, Stephen Ryan, etc. - and that they'd fire for us.

To be almost fair to Tony Shaw, but if drafting & trading had properly complemented the Team throughout 91-96 then Shaw might have had a thoroughly decent team to mis-coach.

As it is, since that Premiership Team and excluding the recent youth, our four best pick-ups since 91 have been Nathan Buckley - no surprise, considering he was headlined a star, Mal Michael - a fluke, since he was promoted from the supplemental list, Scott Burns and Richard Osborne. Otherwise, since 91, our recruiting has sucked. (This is excepting the current crop).

Considering everybody bar Shaw, Banks and Daicos were under 25 in that 1990 Premiership Team, we should have been hitting our peak in 95-96, instead of starting our march toward decline.

But our drafting and trading in complementing our team, as well as our dismal lack of foresight has led us to where we are now.


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Sly LeKoupa.
The Last Remaining Bad Guy.
The Collingwood Rant.
The Unofficial AFL Ranting Board.

[Joel]

Medicrocy doesnt last forever!! An neither does greatness. I cant wait to see the look on North Melbourne supporters in a few years, when alot of their team start to retire!

[Magpie mick]

To the magpie mick above, I am the real magpie mick get your own name.

[AlfAndrews]

I must say, the revival of this topic is particularly embarassing for me. I just looked back at my posting on March 2.

I said, "At the very least we''ll be on the fringes of the 8. But I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us make a Preliminary or even a Grand Final."

I think that makes me just about the all-time worst footy tipster in the history of the Game.

Well, here's a prediction:
We won't win a game next year.

(with my tipping record that should just about GUARANTEE us a premiership!!!)

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**floreat pica**

[The Grim Reaper]

This post is spot on.

Nothing has happened to change this view of Collingwood yet.

[MarkT]

Hey Grim, do you mean that we are still wallowing in mediocrity?
If so, I disagree. I agree with almost all that was said in these posts except that we have improved significantly on the field and with some further good recruiting we look set for a good period. Our good youngsters are VERY good. We aint there yet but we are moving in the right direction and moving fast.

Lets not forget that we are in the 8 right now. With a little luch and a lot of G&D we will be there in 3 weeks. If we can do that and win 1 final we will have exceeded all reasonable expectations.

I only have 1 wish for the rest of the season though:
SMASH CARLTON!!!!!!!!!

[The Grim Reaper]

Nothing has changed as far as I can see.

We still havent made the finals and we certainly wont make them this year.

If that is the case we are another Richmond who are jsut another version of Fiztroy and St. Kilda.

When we make and win finals consistently, then things will have changed. Not til then.

[Joel]

quote:

---

Nothing has changed as far as I can see.
We still havent made the finals and we certainly wont make them this year.

If that is the case we are another Richmond who are jsut another version of Fiztroy and St. Kilda.

When we make and win finals consistently, then things will have changed. Not til then.

---

Totally disagree. Before you walk you have to learn how to crawl, you don't just start walking do you? We have improved considerably over last year - maybe that is why we have won ten games compared to seven last year and the fact that we "could" win 13. That is improvement, I'm sorry.

JDF

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 13 August 2001).]