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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Joff, here is the post I have been responding to:
| Dr Pie wrote: | | This was genocide every bit as much as the mass murder in Germany or Rwanda. It was the intention of the State Governments to "breed out" the Aborigines. This is elimination of a race, i.e. Genocide. |
I'm not trying to suggest that you, or the Aboriginal rights movement as a whole necessarily takes this view. However, it is a popular view, as this thread surely shows. From what I have read of their other posts, Dr Pie and Nomadjack are far from stupid, so this is not some straw man argument on my part.
I feel we have had this disagreement in the past, but I strongly disagree with your, well, black-and-white views on black and white. It is just so much more complex than that.
As for the last paragraph, I believe the 'white supremacist movement' (if there ever was one) is long dead here, or at least confined to the fringes of society. Ideas of racial superiority have not been part of the mainstream for many, many years. Please don't place me in camps I don't belong to.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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http://www.melbourneleader.com.au/article/2008/01/30/28621_mev_news.html
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The Creativity Movement promotes itself as ``the most Anti-Christian Church in the World'' and its supporters post stickers across town reading, ``White Power! White People Awake, Save the White Race.''
The group's Australian leader, Patrick O'Sullivan who refers to himself as a Reverend argues it is their right to do so.
``We have a right to congregate our religion; if people don't like it, tough luck,'' he said. ``There is nothing wrong with promoting the white race. Nobody is forcing no one to join it, so I am not apologetic.'' |
http://slackbastard.anarchobase.com/?p=1023
| Quote: | Q. RBT: Is the Birmingham Hotel a Nazi Pub? Proof please!
A. Yes Virginia, there is a neo-Nazi pub in Fitzroy.
The Birmy hosted the 2006 ISD gig, the 2005 ISD gig (the 2004 ISD gig was held elsewhere), the 2003 ISD gig [?] and was the venue for the memorial in years previous to this. In 2002 The Birmy hosted a gig organised by the same mobs — Blood & Honour Australia and the Southern Cross Hammerskins — to celebrate Hitler’s birthday. |
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I dare say Australia's mental health centres have more inmates than these fringe groups have members.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/
| Quote: | Welcome to the website designed to serve Australian nationalist activists in New South Wales. The website has been created to assist a new political-generation of nationalists. This web site was founded for the Sydney branch of the Australia First Party in 2003 and is currently maintained by Australia First members generally. All patriotic people are welcome to submit material for publication.. The site will be modified continually.
There is a growing resistance to the politics of New World Order liberal-globalist-capitalism throughout Australia. Australian workers, farmers, small business and other patriotic people are recognising they are bonded against a globalising traitor class of money and position. This patriotic resistance requires a new sense of direction and a new leadership. This leadership can only come from the various forces of nationalism and patriotism in this country. There must be a non-sectarian and co-operative spirit in building activism at the base amongst all nationalist and patriotic people. This unity in action will be the first stage in winning political and organizational unity. A united movement can then best direct the resistance struggle.
All nationalists and patriotic people should consider membership in the Australia First Party. In joining this new force, applicants are affiliating to a national movement of men and women dedicated to a programme for the reaffirmation of Australian identity, independence and freedom. |
You could be right about the fringe nature of such a group... But we need to be serious about denouncing it. And we certainly can't just pretend such movements don't exist in Australia, as you seem to want to do.
Remember Hanson? That was only a decade ago, and she got something like 10% of the vote in Queensland. Remember cronulla? That was only a few years ago.
Racist Australian nationalism is on the rise, and wishing it to go away won't suffice.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| David wrote: | Joff, here is the post I have been responding to:
| Dr Pie wrote: | | This was genocide every bit as much as the mass murder in Germany or Rwanda. It was the intention of the State Governments to "breed out" the Aborigines. This is elimination of a race, i.e. Genocide. |
I'm not trying to suggest that you, or the Aboriginal rights movement as a whole necessarily takes this view. However, it is a popular view, as this thread surely shows. From what I have read of their other posts, Dr Pie and Nomadjack are far from stupid, so this is not some straw man argument on my part.
I feel we have had this disagreement in the past, but I strongly disagree with your, well, black-and-white views on black and white. It is just so much more complex than that.
As for the last paragraph, I believe the 'white supremacist movement' (if there ever was one) is long dead here, or at least confined to the fringes of society. Ideas of racial superiority have not been part of the mainstream for many, many years. Please don't place me in camps I don't belong to. |
Surely David we are not resorting to the old dirty minority group tactics of to divide and conquor ?
Please dont dare try them tactics, to suggest i have somehow implicated the stupidness of Dr Pie and ole Nomad shows your argument is just about void and dead.
It's not complex mate you have made it complex by ingnorance to search for answers that dont exist.
It very much is about the white race and it's belief it is far superior than the black race, World history is dominant on the subject. The greatest human being to ever grace the planet David was murdered by his very own white supremacist governement amidst his rise to power and prominance during the civil rights movement for no other reason than giving and wanting his people the right to have voice!
Apartheid do anything for you David ?
Shall i go on ?
Nah not complex mate infact far from it! We in Australia have been guilty of mass crimes against our blacks, we have been no different mate 
_________________
Football is Greatness
http://youtu.be/tJwoKbPOsQE |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| sherrife wrote: | http://ausfirst.alphalink.com.au/
[quote]Welcome to the website designed to serve Australian nationalist activists in New South Wales. The website has been created to assist a new political-generation of nationalists. This web site was founded for the Sydney branch of the Australia First Party in 2003 and is currently maintained by Australia First members generally. All patriotic people are welcome to submit material for publication.. The site will be modified continually.
There is a growing resistance to the politics of New World Order liberal-globalist-capitalism throughout Australia. Australian workers, farmers, small business and other patriotic people are recognising they are bonded against a globalising traitor class of money and position. This patriotic resistance requires a new sense of direction and a new leadership. This leadership can only come from the various forces of nationalism and patriotism in this country. There must be a non-sectarian and co-operative spirit in building activism at the base amongst all nationalist and patriotic people. This unity in action will be the first stage in winning political and organizational unity. A united movement can then best direct the resistance struggle.
All nationalists and patriotic people should consider membership in the Australia First Party. In joining this new force, applicants are affiliating to a national movement of men and women dedicated to a programme for the reaffirmation of Australian identity, independence and freedom. [/quote]
You could be right about the fringe nature of such a group... But we need to be serious about denouncing it. And we certainly can't just pretend such movements don't exist in Australia, as you seem to want to do.
Remember Hanson? That was only a decade ago, and she got something like 10% of the vote in Queensland. Remember cronulla? That was only a few years ago.
Racist Australian nationalism is on the rise, and wishing it to go away won't suffice. |
I will bookmark the URL and have a look. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Omar, I don't see anything about white supremacy in the AFP website.... right-wing (? maybe not in this case) nationalism and white supremacism can co-exist, but don't necessarily have to.
I don't seem to recall any people wandering around with white hoods or burning crosses on the news broadcasts of the Cronulla riots.
Let's not get white supremacism confused with garden variety xenophobia. Very, very different things.
| Joffa Corfe wrote: | Surely David we are not resorting to the old dirty minority group tactics of to divide and conquor ?
Please dont dare try them tactics, to suggest i have somehow implicated the stupidness of Dr Pie and ole Nomad shows your argument is just about void and dead. |
Oh for heaven's sake...
Joffa I really don't think we're getting anywhere with this argument... perhaps we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| David wrote: | Omar, I don't see anything about white supremacy in the AFP website.... right-wing (? maybe not in this case) nationalism and white supremacism can co-exist, but don't necessarily have to.
I don't seem to recall any people wandering around with white hoods or burning crosses on the news broadcasts of the Cronulla riots.
Let's not get white supremacism confused with garden variety xenophobia. Very, very different things.
| Joffa Corfe wrote: | Surely David we are not resorting to the old dirty minority group tactics of to divide and conquor ?
Please dont dare try them tactics, to suggest i have somehow implicated the stupidness of Dr Pie and ole Nomad shows your argument is just about void and dead. |
Oh for heaven's sake...
Joffa I really don't think we're getting anywhere with this argument... perhaps we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that. |
LOL agreed mate
_________________
Football is Greatness
http://youtu.be/tJwoKbPOsQE |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Just regroup David. The problem is you're trying to use rational Logic which fails in an emotive pasionate argument. Because people feel very passionatley about a topic, they are less open to opposing views.
Doesn't mean one view is more right or wrong, it just derails debate.
OH, Dr. Pie, I agree with you on the religious/cultural description. You're right that Judaism is more than just a religion, but falls short of being a race.
I notice that no one else touched my other questions though.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Cheers Stui.
just on the Judaism thing, though... I kinda disagree. The Jewish people has traditionally seen themselves as being a racial group, and I believe that many still do to this day. My girlfriend refers to herself as being Jewish, despite being non-religious. Hitler clearly saw the Jews in racial terms, didn't he?
That's not to say that I disagree with what you're essentially saying. I have argued for a long time that what people refer to as 'racism' is actually almost always 'culturism' (or xenophobia, for lack of a better word)... a fear/dislike of different cultures as opposed to races. It can be confusing, but I believe it is a very, very important delineation.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Ah, David, feel free to disagree mate, it would be way too boring if we all agreed.
I see where you're coming from, and Judaism may have started as a race or a religion, I'm not too sure. There's a blurred line there between race, religion and culture.
Using the cultural example, I think it was in Malawai in Africa where one tribal group took hold of the government then systematically set about obliterating people of the same race, but different tribe (and therefore culture). Similar things happened all over Africa. Racism? Cultural genocide?
Maybe the old definitions of "race" need to be completely redefined with "culture" as a prerequisite as they are too broad. Are Japanese and Chinese different Races or just different cultures.?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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