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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| stui magpie wrote: | | London Dave wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: |
Omar, quote statistics about international comparisons all you like, my opinion is based on first hand experience as a parent, and talking to other parents. And I was active in my experience, unlike (from what teachers told me) most parents. If my kids got behind or I had issues, I would email teachers directly to get feedback. I also have a cousin who's a primary school teacher. |
First hand is fine, but sometimes, I don't agree with being governed by the aggregated anecdote. Having said that, (and I'm probably being guilty of an anecdote here myself), it appears to moi the vast majority of commentators seem to think they were genius' at 16 (or 17 etc) when they finished high school. They weren't. For myself, I got good marks etc, but as for being prepared for the 'world of work', I was a moron. I'd defy anyone to believe themselves to be any different. Schools should teach you how to learn, it's a life long journey. Expecting them to produce a finished product is cloud cuckoo land. I've had graduates from the top unis here (read Oxbridge) work for/with me who took several years to get their shit together, so to speak. They were sharp cookies too, smarter than me (anyone who quotes this will be instantly banned!!!!) but, for want of a better word, raw. It takes a good grounding, but also experience.
| stui magpie wrote: | Most teachers are genuinely trying to do a good job. There's a few jaded grumpy farkers who hate kids and shouldn't be in the job but they're well in the minority.
The current grading system actively discourages comparison between kids and drags the grades of high achievers back to the pack so they can do the same at the other end of the scale and drag up kids who are failing. |
I play cricket with a couple of teachers here, and if their experience is anything to go by, %$^£$%^&%% me! I did read a bit if research a couple of years back (can't recall if it was NY Times or New Yorker), which essentially reckoned a kid only really needs to connect with one teacher for them to 'get their shit together'. Undoubtedly having a parent who takes a bit of an active participation helps as well. for me, I knew, without ever being explicitly told, anything less than straight A's was not an option. End of story.
Regarding grading systems, at the end of the day, you get the best marks you can at HSC or whatever it's called these days. If you can walk outta high school with decent grades and the ability to educate yourself, I'd figure you should do OK. The amount of statutory testing they do over here (and if it isn't already in Oz, it soon will be) reminds me of a favourite saying from my old man...You don't make a pig any fatter by weighing it. |
I agree about not expecting schools to turn out a finished product.
Part of going to school is learning how to relate to people, deal with difference and learning how to manage the expectations of others, both peer and teacher.
I'll give credit where it's due in that a couple of years ago, some high schools in Vic introduced an alternative year 11 and 12 curriculum for kids who weren't intended to go to Uni and therefore didn't need VCE or an Enter score. Much more practical focus including talks with careers counsellers and visiting workplaces and recruitment agencies.
My problem with the current grading system used during the year (half and full year reports) is that they drag everyone to the loqwest common denominator.
A = 12 months ahead of where you should be
B = 6 months ahead of where you should be
c = about where you should be
D = 6 months behind
E = 12 months behind
Now, apart from identifying the handul of prodigies and the handfull with reall issues, that lumps 80-90% of kids into a "C".
Now, a 5 point scoring scale is reasonably common, but not with a distribution like that. What sort of distribution would you be looking for in your workplace performance review process LD? Someting closer to 5; 20; 50; 20; 5?
My argument is that for the vast majority of kids, it gives no real indication of relative performance. The kid who's aceing it gets the same grade as the kid who's struggling to keep up.
The only real measure is the Enter scores and schools manipulate their average score and pass rate by pushing "selected kids" into either an alternative curriculm or into leaving alltogether. |
Now that we've got that out of the road, I thought I'd bring this back up again.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| London Dave wrote: | twas actually direct at me, but what the heck.....
| London Dave wrote: | | I was a moron. |
changed now. |
I was just trying to put some at ease with real proof of people being dumb 
On the cricket show they said where Pakistan is for those who really don't know :p
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