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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Is that last semester and there are arguments that it does in theory benefit the third world countries if they implement it and the corporations don't cheat the system as they do a hard subject? |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| David from Canberra wrote: | | Agreed Omar, to some extent. The main concept of capitalism is all about personal advancement over others, so yes it certainty isn't the perfect system by any means. But our political system isn't based on pure capitalism, as Australia at least has such a good welfare system (especially compared to America). Correct me if I misunderstood, but were you also touching on globalization? Because I was studying that last semester, and there are arguments that it does actually in theory benefit the third world countries, if they implement it properly and the corporations don't cheat the system (as they so often do). |
Perfect, you've reached to the problem. Just as communism fails in practice due to the inherent dangers of over-centralisation, capitalism fails in practice due to other causes:
1. Liberal economic policies (or completely free open trading between nations) always assume that companies will invest in the local market both in terms of infrastructure (roads etc) and human capital (training locals, giving them jobs etc) when that market has a resource that appeals to them. However this has clearly been proven to be false. Shell does not hire Nigerians to work in the office at the Nigerian oil fields, nor does Accenture (multinational consulting firm my friend is interning with) hire many Australians to work in it's Australian branch. These companies ship their workers around and don't even look at the local human capital.
In terms of infrastructure, sure they might make surw the road from the oilfield to the port is secure and well maintained, but they havent worried too much about the local village, and certainly nothing that could be argued to serve the 'trickle down effect' that i'm pretty sure they're teaching you at school (just out of interest that theory, which Howard does/did subscribe to, has been completely debunked). Have sweatshop wages risen in 20 years? No. The reason for that is that third world countries are in a race to the bottom competing for these factories, and wages are actually getting lower as different countries bid for the 'privelege of having the factories on their soil.
2. The reason for ^ is in the very nature of the company. Self-serving by law, the company is actually not allowed legally to make a decision that adversely impacts shareholders. Spending 50 bucks on a local village is difficult to justify using that sort of law.
Ive gotta go to an interview now, continue this later 
PS. PP it's actually a bit insulting and ignorant to pretend like we're ever going to end up in poverty from a global perspective... The worst-off homeless beggar in Melb or Sydney is still in a much better situation than the average peasant in rural China or Africa, in that s/he has access to water, hospitals, and generally food. Yea sometimes they get none of these things and thats a tragedy, but think of that person X9999 and then we're getting somewhere close to a fair comparison i guess.
_________________
I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs
Last edited by sherrife on Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Hmm. . . all right, then. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Jacqui from all accounts the American welfare system simply abandons people. The Australian system does not do that at all, and while you could argue that the poor in Australia are getting worse, they still fare alright. My family is definitely in the "poorer" category, as there's only been one income for 14 years, and due to my parents' decision to have 8 kids  we've always lived without many extras that other families enjoy. However, we still live very comfortably compared to the majority in third world countries and even many thousands in America. As for the homeless in Australia, I don't have any statistics but from my knowledge the situation here is way better than America.
Omar I studied this sort of thing in depth last term and one of the strongest arguments supporting the actions of Multinationals is that they provide jobs that otherwise would not be there... true they're shitty jobs and the pay is shocking compared to here, but they are better than literally nothing, which is what many citizens of third world countries are faced with. Of course it's true that corporations are self-serving... that is only logical, but at the same time it can be said that what they are doing, whatever their motives, do actually raise the Standard of Living in third world countries.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the "trickle down effect" maybe it goes by another name? Is it similar to "flying geese theory"? And what do you mean exactly by completely debunked? I mean, I've read websites where Farenheit 9/11 was "completely debunked", but in the end it was just that person's opinion on the movie and their interpretation of facts.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| David from Canberra wrote: | Omar I studied this sort of thing in depth last term and one of the strongest arguments supporting the actions of Multinationals is that they provide jobs that otherwise would not be there... true they're shitty jobs and the pay is shocking compared to here, but they are better than literally nothing, which is what many citizens of third world countries are faced with. Of course it's true that corporations are self-serving... that is only logical, but at the same time it can be said that what they are doing, whatever their motives, do actually raise the Standard of Living in third world countries.
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http://www.mcspotlight.org/beyond/index.html
Trickle down effect is the theory that world economics is like a pyramid of wine glasses, fill up the top and the rest will eventually be filled also. Utter bullshit according to most economists i've read about.
*************JESUS check these out! It's scary how blatantly they can lie for money http://www.mcspotlight.org/case/trial/quotes.html
_________________
I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| David from Canberra wrote: | | Is it like everyone goes to uni and suddenly becomes all wrapped up in politics? |
No, just that, as usual, there is a vocal minority. |
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Robert Walls (not really)
Joined: 26 Jun 2006
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| David from Canberra wrote: | Jacqui from all accounts the American welfare system simply abandons people. The Australian system does not do that at all, and while you could argue that the poor in Australia are getting worse, they still fare alright. My family is definitely in the "poorer" category, as there's only been one income for 14 years, and due to my parents' decision to have 8 kids we've always lived without many extras that other families enjoy. However, we still live very comfortably compared to the majority in third world countries and even many thousands in America. As for the homeless in Australia, I don't have any statistics but from my knowledge the situation here is way better than America.
Omar I studied this sort of thing in depth last term and one of the strongest arguments supporting the actions of Multinationals is that they provide jobs that otherwise would not be there... true they're shitty jobs and the pay is shocking compared to here, but they are better than literally nothing, which is what many citizens of third world countries are faced with. Of course it's true that corporations are self-serving... that is only logical, but at the same time it can be said that what they are doing, whatever their motives, do actually raise the Standard of Living in third world countries.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the "trickle down effect" maybe it goes by another name? Is it similar to "flying geese theory"? And what do you mean exactly by completely debunked? I mean, I've read websites where Farenheit 9/11 was "completely debunked", but in the end it was just that person's opinion on the movie and their interpretation of facts. |
I love your work Dave. |
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