|
|
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
Martin Bryant, Julian knight, Anita Colbys killers, the English house of horrors couple, none deserve to breathe air.
However, Having watched the innocence project, and making a murderer, (i still follow Steves story on facebook etc, its just a terrible injustice, he was clearly not guilty, either time!) makes me reluctant to go further down the depravities chain. But that too is coloured by the unbelievably evil corrupted USA justice system.
Im crook as a dog right now (thanks hubby) coughing my lungs up, so yesterday i watched Netflix's Painkiller about Oxycontin. mind blowing the evilness that killed over 300,000 people with false advertising, disgraceful selling tactics, it was legalized mass murder. no charges, still rich.
then after lunch i got stuck into the latest 60 days in. Now i really loved the El Chappo series, Queen of the South, SOA, Breaking Bad, you name it, but seeing 17-18 year old kids in prison, acting like they are in a series, its terrifying.
Watching our road toll skyrocket, so many innocents killed by $£$%^%%$ selfish drunk, drugged, speeding fuckheads, the shootings, the stabbings, the gang bashing, we need to unplug from the US culture and fast.
A 14 year old girl was arrested in front of the school at juniors school last week for one such gang bashing at her sisters school. Man i know She is making a difference, but i truly hope to God Shes out of there soon.
there has to be something between the death penalty and the crap handed out right now to those who are simply sticking their middle finger up to the law, to society, to every one of us idiots doing the right thing.
You choose to drive a car, unlicenced, licenced, drugged, drunk, underage, you recklessly kill someone, i don't care how old you are, thats serious jail time. You punch someone for the hell of it, Jail time. These kids are not scared of getting caught, or they value the opinion of their idiot mates more than their freedom.
then we can start talking about how to reduce Recidivism.
The simple fact is also that there are just so many parents not doing their basic job. Kids with no sense of community, self-respect, and respect for others. Child services is failing these kids badly. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
Post subject: | |
|
My extremely unpopular opinion is that criminals are human beings too, who deserve to be treated with kindness and dignity, no matter what they’ve done. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
Nope, cold, sadistic, psychotic, predators that didn’t afford such niceties to their victims deserve nothing but a hard bunk and 3 shit meals a day til they meet their maker. The sooner the better.
I mentioned hard core cruel sadistic hunting killers, they are in a seperate category to your garden variety killers, drug dealers, sex traffickers, child abusers, etc, who also deserve nought but a hard cot and 3 shit meals, but they can live their miserable existences in GenPop.
Iget a bit more sympathetic to no violence thieves etc. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
Post subject: | |
|
^
I mentioned that English Nurse who killed all those prem babies.
I don't know what her malfunction is, but that wasn't one momentary lapse of judgement, that was cold blooded, premeditated multiple murders.
I believe she's been given a USA style sentence, surprisingly for the UK, multiple life sentences with zero prospect of parole. No prospect of rehabilitation. She does not deserve to be treated with kindness and dignity. She's destined to die in gaol, what good is served by prolonging it for 40-50 years and waiting til she dies of natural causes or other convicts taking matters into their own hands?
All of those parents who lost children, live their lives knowing that the woman who murdered their babies may have lost her freedom, but will live out the course of her natural life behind bars being treated with dignity and respect? That's rubbing salt into an open wound and keeping it open forever. She has forfeited her right to dignity and kindness, she deserves to die. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010 Location: Living rent free
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | My extremely unpopular opinion is that criminals are human beings too, who deserve to be treated with kindness and dignity, no matter what they’ve done. |
I agree 100% David. That is a very unpopular opinion. _________________ Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
Post subject: | |
|
think positive wrote: | Nope, cold, sadistic, psychotic, predators that didn’t afford such niceties to their victims deserve nothing but a hard bunk and 3 shit meals a day til they meet their maker. The sooner the better.
I mentioned hard core cruel sadistic hunting killers, they are in a seperate category to your garden variety killers, drug dealers, sex traffickers, child abusers, etc, who also deserve nought but a hard cot and 3 shit meals, but they can live their miserable existences in GenPop.
Iget a bit more sympathetic to no violence thieves etc. |
Could say "agree to disagree" but I guess it's more interesting to ask ... why? Why should people who were cruel to others be treated cruelly in return?
I kind of wonder how many people reading the Gospels nowadays get their minds blown by the bit where JC talks about "loving your enemies" rather than taking an eye for an eye. It's occurred to me before how weird it is that this is the religion that our entire society has been built around, yet these ideas in its holy book remain radical. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
|
Post subject: | |
|
A child killer will be given hell behind bars. The only reason they will not kill her is to inflict torture and prolong her suffering _________________ How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | Why should people who were cruel to others be treated cruelly in return?
|
Why does it need to be done cruelly? People can do voluntary euthanasia, they die, it's not cruel. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
Bucks5 wrote: | A child killer will be given hell behind bars. The only reason they will not kill her is to inflict torture and prolong her suffering |
I’m fine with that _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
stui magpie wrote: | ^
I mentioned that English Nurse who killed all those prem babies.
I don't know what her malfunction is, but that wasn't one momentary lapse of judgement, that was cold blooded, premeditated multiple murders.
I believe she's been given a USA style sentence, surprisingly for the UK, multiple life sentences with zero prospect of parole. No prospect of rehabilitation. She does not deserve to be treated with kindness and dignity. She's destined to die in gaol, what good is served by prolonging it for 40-50 years and waiting til she dies of natural causes or other convicts taking matters into their own hands?
All of those parents who lost children, live their lives knowing that the woman who murdered their babies may have lost her freedom, but will live out the course of her natural life behind bars being treated with dignity and respect? That's rubbing salt into an open wound and keeping it open forever. She has forfeited her right to dignity and kindness, she deserves to die. |
Totally agree _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
stui magpie wrote: | David wrote: | Why should people who were cruel to others be treated cruelly in return?
|
Why does it need to be done cruelly? People can do voluntary euthanasia, they die, it's not cruel. | agree with this and I’ll add, even without the death sentence, unless the somehow earn it, I cant imagine how, they get absolutely basic requirements.
And exactly how does anyone think such calculatingly cruel people would respond to ‘kindness’? I’d guess by abusing or manipulating it.
For some crimes there simply is no road to redemption. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | think positive wrote: | Nope, cold, sadistic, psychotic, predators that didn’t afford such niceties to their victims deserve nothing but a hard bunk and 3 shit meals a day til they meet their maker. The sooner the better.
I mentioned hard core cruel sadistic hunting killers, they are in a seperate category to your garden variety killers, drug dealers, sex traffickers, child abusers, etc, who also deserve nought but a hard cot and 3 shit meals, but they can live their miserable existences in GenPop.
Iget a bit more sympathetic to no violence thieves etc. |
Could say "agree to disagree" but I guess it's more interesting to ask ... why? Why should people who were cruel to others be treated cruelly in return?
I kind of wonder how many people reading the Gospels nowadays get their minds blown by the bit where JC talks about "loving your enemies" rather than taking an eye for an eye. It's occurred to me before how weird it is that this is the religion that our entire society has been built around, yet these ideas in its holy book remain radical. |
Never read it never will.
Not the rules or laws I live by. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
Post subject: | |
|
And I feel like, in this country, you’re in the majority these days (though the far more "Christian" USA is of course no less eye-for-an-eye in its mainstream cultural attitudes to crime and punishment).
I wonder if this is how Christianity meets its cultural demise: with the conclusion that Jesus was a softc*ck?
I guess one can only shrug. As an atheist who thinks that most of it was made up after the fact, I’m no-one to talk! But I do admire the radicalism of that worldview nonetheless, and find that it’s one I identify with in many ways, God or no God. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
Post subject: | |
|
stui magpie wrote: | David wrote: | Why should people who were cruel to others be treated cruelly in return?
|
Why does it need to be done cruelly? People can do voluntary euthanasia, they die, it's not cruel. |
Cruelty exists on a spectrum, but if it’s not voluntary then I’m not sure how you can conclude that it isn’t cruel to take someone’s life away when they don’t want you to.
think positive wrote: | And exactly how does anyone think such calculatingly cruel people would respond to ‘kindness’? I’d guess by abusing or manipulating it.
For some crimes there simply is no road to redemption. |
In some cases, possibly (to the bolded section). But most criminals, including undoubtedly many of the people mentioned in previous posts as candidates for the death penalty, are not on evil villain mode 24/7. Human beings are complicated and generally capable of a wide range of emotional states, including remorse and kindness even in the aftermath of inflicting unimaginable harm.
I dare say that the way we view many of those people, including the British nurse, is essentially as a caricature based on the worst things they did. We can’t really fathom (or at least are not inclined to think about) how she was when she was at home with her family or in the ward at other times, or how she is now years after the offences. So we’re not really in a position to say whether she would respond to respect and kindness or not. If I had to assume either way, I’d rather assume the best (particularly now she’s effectively been neutralised and generally not in a position to harm others).
But either way, nobody needs to be a pushover or an easy mark here: people can be dealt with kindly but firmly, and smartly too. It may seem a paradox, but it’s not that hard: we should act this way towards criminals because it is the value we wanted them and everyone else to live by in the first place – because being cruel and violent to others is the disposition at the source of the crime to begin with, and the thing we are trying to condemn and disincentivise. So it’s a simple matter of society practising what it preaches. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
welll they cant be, or they would get caught bloody quick! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
|