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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Post subject: Superstars, middle class and jobbers = Premiership Model | |
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Think the Eagles, Richmond and GWS are leading the way in constructing the modern day playing list. Recruiting, developing and retaining matchwinners whom ultimately stand up on Preliminary and Grand Final day is the new paradigm. Nothing ground-breaking but as we embark on the difficult period of retaining messrs Grundy, DeGoey and Moore amongst others, Ned Guy has to be prepared to "crack a few eggs to make an omelette" so to speak.
So what constitutes a superstar, middle class and jobber? Well:
1. Superstar:
* All Australian guernseys & top 40 selections
* Elite in Champion Data rating multiple years
* Copeland Trophy multiple top 3 finishes
* Finals performances
* Brownlow finishes
* Clutch moment responses
* Disposal efficiency
* Injury profile
Whom on or list satisfies this criteria?
* Brodie Grundy
* Scott Pendlebury
Whom can get on this list?
* Darcy Moore: play 90% matches, get fitter ……)
* Jordan DeGoey: play 90% matches, get fitter.....)
* Jaidyn Stephenson: move to the Wing and be a 25+possession player)
* Adam Treloar: 80% kicking efficiency and 1 goal/game average
* Steele Sidebottom: 70:30 forward vs mid time and 40+ goal season
2. Middle-Class:
* Reliable, consistent and mainstay selections
* $450,000-$650,000 earners
* Champion Data rated above average in most categories
* Perennial top 4-10 in Copeland Trophy
* Less likely to make All Australian squads
Players we have that fit into this?
* Jeremy Howe
* Brayden Maynard
* Jamie Elliott
* Jack Crisp
* Dayne Beams (the 2019 version)
* Taylor Adams
* Tom Phillips
* W Hoskin Elliott: plays like an A or a C so averages a B
3. Jobbers:
* worker bees type
* expendable to ensure superstars are NEVER lost
* capable of top 8-12 Copeland Trophy finishes
* mixed ratings by Champion Data but generally average overall
* Not automatic selections
Players like this on our list?
* Brayden Sier
* Mason Cox
* Matt Scharenberg
* Chris Mayne
* Brody Mihocek (nearly a B until that last game)
* J Thomas
* Tom Langdon
* Rupert Wills
* Ben Reid
* Matt Scharenberg
* Trav Varcoe
* James Aish
* Jordan Roughead
* Levi Greenwood
4. Uncategorised:
Naturally every year, new recruits, second and third year players get a chance to emerge from the uncategorised to any of the above three categories. So entering 2020, it shall be interesting to see how:
* Nathan Murphy
* Tyler Brown
* J Daicos
* Callum Brown
* Isaac Quaynor
* W. Kelly
* Atu Bosenavulagi
Conclusion:
We have too many C grade jobbers on our list and a lot of work to catch up to the number of clutch superstars these teams have:
Tiger Superstars:
* Dusty Martin
* Jack Riewoldt
* Trent Cotchin
* Shane Edwards
* Tom Lynch
* Bachar Houli (he is)
* Dion Prestia
* Alex Rance
* Dylan Grimes
GWS Superstars:
* Jeremy Cameron
* Stephen Coniglio
* Lachie Whitfield
* Nick Haynes
* J Kelly
* Phil Davis
* Toby Greene
* Zac Williams
* Tim Taranto
Eagles Superstars:
* Elliott Yeo
* Nic Nat
* Luke Shuey
* Jack Darling
* Jeremy McGovern
* Tim Kelly
* Shannon Hurn
* Andrew Gaff
We have some work to do! _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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tbaker
Joined: 02 Jul 2018 Location: Q19 Southern Stand MCG
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Having your best players available at the pointy end of the season is the single biggest factor separating Richmond and us. _________________ I find your lack of faith disturbing |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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^ I wish a weak club like GC would go and poach all their fitness staff. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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another mind-numbing list thread. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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If De Goey, Sidebottom and Treloar don’t make your “A” list, there is something fundamentally wrong with your criteria. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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I'm with P4s. |
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Brown26
Joined: 14 Sep 2001 Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Mate I agree with your theory but you've skewed your assessment of our list and others to make your point mute.
As others have pointed out, if you don't put De Goey, Sidebottom and Treloar as category A players you're mad. And you've basically said they're not as good as :
Prestia, Edwards, Grimes, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn, Gaff etc.
Now they're very good players, but so are ours! You could argue Grimes, McGovern and Howe are all basically similar players - best as the third tall and intercept marking - and Howe probably offers the best offence out of the three, McGovern reads the play best (and plays a bit bigger) and Grimes is very dependable, but really - are they that much different? And Howe wasn't even in anyones discussions as a A grade player - but you're given the other two A grade gurnseys?
I think you're betrayed your point with inaccuracies of fact.
- Ben |
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Rogue2k0
Joined: 21 Feb 2018
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Brown26 wrote: | Mate I agree with your theory but you've skewed your assessment of our list and others to make your point mute.
As others have pointed out, if you don't put De Goey, Sidebottom and Treloar as category A players you're mad. And you've basically said they're not as good as :
Prestia, Edwards, Grimes, Yeo, Shuey, Hurn, Gaff etc.
Now they're very good players, but so are ours! You could argue Grimes, McGovern and Howe are all basically similar players - best as the third tall and intercept marking - and Howe probably offers the best offence out of the three, McGovern reads the play best (and plays a bit bigger) and Grimes is very dependable, but really - are they that much different? And Howe wasn't even in anyones discussions as a A grade player - but you're given the other two A grade gurnseys?
I think you're betrayed your point with inaccuracies of fact.
- Ben |
Totally agree with above
Some examples of inaccuracies
Treloar had the most possessions in the AFL this year - not sure why he didn't make All Australian when he had more disposals, Tackles, Score Involvements, than Neale, Fyfe, Cotchin etc... A+ in my opinion - if he was at Freo - likely would have won the Brownlow.
Cotchin in my opinon very overated - kicked 3 goals for the year, had 277 disposals @ 61% efficiency - is Average or Below Average in Every Stat according to AFL Player Stats - only reason he is considered so highly is because he was/is Captain of 2 Premiership teams.
Also GWS had the world offered to them, 30+ Round 1 draft picks - a lot of whom have gone elsewhere, they got Thrashed in a Grand Final, barely beat Collingwood who played 1 quarter of football and nearly won it. As it stands I would say we are slightly ahead of GWS - we only lost a GF by 5 points - GWS 3rd biggest loss in a GF. We also beat Richmond in a GF by kicking 25 points |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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E wrote: | another mind-numbing list thread. |
Sad coming from the contributor of the Rupert Wills obsession thread. _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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LaurieHolden
Floreat Gymnorhina tyrannica
Joined: 22 Feb 2009 Location: Victoria Park
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inxs88 wrote: | E wrote: | another mind-numbing list thread. |
Sad coming from the contributor of the Rupert Wills obsession thread. |
You forgot to make the thread "official"... _________________ "The Club's not Jock, Ted and Gerry" (& Eddie)
2023 AFL Premiers |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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LaurieHolden wrote: | inxs88 wrote: | E wrote: | another mind-numbing list thread. |
Sad coming from the contributor of the Rupert Wills obsession thread. |
You forgot to make the thread "official"... |
Touche' Jack Thompson _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Buckenara rates our list.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/expert-opinion/gary-buckenara/gary-buckenara-analyses-collingwoods-list-after-the-2019-season/news-story/bac00e1370b109743d5e330f889d34eb
Quote: | I was wrong about Collingwood.
In the past I’ve been critical of the Magpies’ recruiting and their methods but what this club has built over the past two seasons has been remarkable when you consider where they were at the end of 2017 and the injury curse they have endured over the last two years. The players and staff that have been brought into the club have shown a tremendous amount of character and selflessness — two qualities imperative to building a successful team environment.
Collingwood is in the envious position of having 23 A, B and C+-grade players to choose from, which speaks volumes for the depth of talent on the list. That doesn’t include Jaidyn Stephenson and Isaac Quaynor — two young players I believe will develop into A or B-graders in the near future.
What the horrendous injury toll the club has endured over the last two years has done is give young players like Stephenson, Callum Brown, Isaac Quaynor, Josh Daicos, Brayden Sier and even Nathan Murphy last year more exposure to senior football than they potentially would have expected at this stage of their careers. It holds the players and coaching staff in good stead for the present and the future because they know what these guys are capable of at senior level, so they have more options to fill roles when needed. |
_________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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That's a worry stui. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
He does go on to say we need a genuine key forward and ideally another key back. So it's not all a sunshine suppository. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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