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the fuzz
Fuzz loves Bruzz
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
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Ads7 wrote: |
Fantastic! Glad to lock this bull in, as well as Phillips and Maynard recently. Future looking good. Keep working your magic Ned Guy and co. |
I think this is a good sign he will be the next Captain. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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It’s been a good period with Flip and Brayden Maynard signings
Mate just emailed. Be great to get De Goey and Grundy added _________________ I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Hey who feels we are still on the journey we started in 2018
Me me me _________________ I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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BEAMER09
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
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the fuzz wrote: | Ads7 wrote: |
Fantastic! Glad to lock this bull in, as well as Phillips and Maynard recently. Future looking good. Keep working your magic Ned Guy and co. |
I think this is a good sign he will be the next Captain. |
It's all about timing so he is IN this week... _________________ COLLINGW09D |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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the fuzz wrote: | Ads7 wrote: |
Fantastic! Glad to lock this bull in, as well as Phillips and Maynard recently. Future looking good. Keep working your magic Ned Guy and co. |
I think this is a good sign he will be the next Captain. |
Could be!!! He has my vote
Thank you Tay for staying with us. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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With pieces falling into place the main focus will remain Grundy
He's the ace in our deck
I doubt anyone on here or any magpie supporter would want to see a Collingwood side going forward not have the name Brodie Grundy in it
It all gets back to the salary cap and how much space we have or can create to keep him
My experience in a different code on handling cap space says it can be done but might take creative solutions
Ok first let me go through the basis any salary cap is structured around
The cap will max out under the current CBA at $13.54 million in 2022.
From 2020 the cap rises from $12.68 million by 2% PA to reach the figure
The average wages will be around $389,000 per player
So with a list minimum of 42 players the juggling is always a issue
Depending on the age of your list or the profile will depend on how much cap room you
Without knowing who gets exactly how much (only have media speculation to go by and that's generally inflated) our cap position is tight
The balancing act all clubs face comes down to a simple principal of paying on performance or potential
Potential is the younger player who in the first season or 2 shows they are up to AFL level and come off rookie deals or a player 3-5 years in to a deal and has taken some time to cement there spot and showing they now belong
Performance is the player who has consistently been a proven performer and acknowledged as a vital part of the clubs future
Given each club generally has around 3-5 players who they view as vital these players would go into the top category of earners on the $750k a season bracket
The next level down would be the good players earning between $500k-$750k
You would expect around 8-12 players to be in this bracket depending on how many are in the top echelon
The remainder would earn $250k -$500k
These are the cattle players every clubs needs to fill list position and give depth
Half of the list would need to fall into this category to balance the cap
Now allowing for veteran allowances and the loyalty factor clubs can generally keep 6-10 players for around $75k-$100k a season less then they might get elsewhere
We've seen in the past couple years mega offers aren't always going to take a player away from there current club where they are happy and settled
This is the key factor in the Grundy negotiations
We don't know how strong the pull to go back to SA is only he knows that
He seems settled and happy at the club and no one could doubt his performances
So we now have to find that happy medium between paying him what he deserves and having enough money to keep our best talent around him to make us a finals contender each season
On the market he will attract offers over $1 million a season that's a given but what discount can we extract to get that figure to where we need it to be
We will have players going off our list this season like Wells Goldie and maybe Varcoe and Reid which will free up some space but some of that money may already be used on the deals for Maynard Adams Crisp etc we've made recently
It may be a case of looking if there's a option to offload a player or 2 who might be in that middle bracket and hoping players like IQ Kelly etc can fill there spots on less money freeing up around $200k plus a season for each we can move on but without affecting the balance of our list
We also have to look at players like JDG who will command more money in his next deal
So do we now
1 - Trade out a player like Elliott (example only not saying he should be traded) to save $250k a season to spend on Grundy
2 - Offer Grundy unders and hope he doesn't get offended
3 - Allow Grundy to leave and look to go to the draft and get some more young talent which would effect our immediate opportunities but may work out in the long run (no guarantees) but it allows you to keep the majority of your list together
4 - Look to trade out a player in our top echelon of earners who has currency in the market place and use that money to pay Grundy and likely JDG in 2022 as well
All these option are possibilities some more than others obviously but it will all come down to what do we think Grundy is worth and how does that impact our ability on still putting players around him capable of keeping us in the finals
Lastly the unknown is the commercial opportunity we can muster for a player of his stature. Again there isn't a set formula on this because some players like the commercial aspect some don't. Some don't mind using there down time to maximise there earnings whilst other like that time to themselves so they would need more cash from the club
This could be the ace in our sleeve in this negotiation. Can we find $200k+ a season outside the cap to close any gap on our offer to a SA clubs offer ?
There isn't a exact science and those who have spoken about the money ball scenario don't understand that money ball doesn't work in the AFL like it would in baseball
The formula used there pits players in basic 1 on 1 contests against another to see there value based on the outcome of that matchup
So it could be a left hand bat v right hand pitcher with some other parrometers thrown in
AFL is a team game and the performance of one player can effect the next player and so on
A bad kick out of defence to a mid has ramifications for both players
The bean counter in me would love to know the exact numbers our players earn to see how we could fit Grundy in long term whilst keeping our best players but |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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qldmagpie67 wrote: | ...
Lastly the unknown is the commercial opportunity we can muster for a player of his stature. Again there isn't a set formula on this because some players like the commercial aspect some don't. Some don't mind using there down time to maximise there earnings whilst other like that time to themselves so they would need more cash from the club
...
The bean counter in me would love to know the exact numbers our players earn to see how we could fit Grundy in long term whilst keeping our best players but |
But...? (QM, it looks like your post got cut off.)
On commercial opportunities, too many of our players enjoy being in the media too much, presumably for no money at all... I wish they wouldn't. (Coaches too.) If they earned loads of money from media stuff, that'd make more sense.
I've never understood how "player sponsorship" (from fans) works. Is that going directly to the players and part of their salaries and the cap, or outside their salaries and the cap, or something else?
And how do the bean counters manage the performance-incentive parts of the contracts (even just for numbers of games played, etc., which requires guessing injuries)? By "manage", I mean how does it work when you're trying to get everything into the salary cap (which is a two-year thing, which helps a bit but not much, you'd think)? |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Can't lose Grundy as we go Backwards very fast _________________ I am Da Man |
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Ads7
Joined: 24 May 2016
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Thanks QM. Interesting to understand the mechanics of a salary cap.
Does anyone know the rules/information related to the below?
1. How many new players must be brought in per season (national draft, rookie draft etc.) Have a feeling it is at least 2-3 in total?
2. What is base salary for kids drafted? Is it same for those drafted via national or rookie drafts? (E.g IQ vs Appleby)
3. Base salary for players like Tom Wilson, Anton Tohill, Mark Keane. Would this go up next year?
4. Minimum of a salary cap that must be used (i.e. of the total ~12/13mil per year, what percentage band has to be used e.g. 80-100%).
May be wrong but I thought there was a minimum spend per year which raises two questions: (1) why do journos go on about a club having a tight salary cap squeeze if every club has to spend roughly same amount; and (2) what happens to all the money clubs like North don’t end up spending when they don’t land a big fish? |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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I don't know the answer to your last 2 questions AD7, but my guess would be that clubs can pay players bonuses (over and above their contracts) to ensure that total player payments reach the required amount under AFL rules. But not having to guarantee these amounts in player contracts, allows these 'surpluses' to be used to land a 'big fish' should one become available. Also, I think all clubs only have to spend 95% of their salary cap each year. So 5% of $13 mill is $650,000. That's a big chunk towards landing a 'big fish'. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Ads7 wrote: | Thanks QM. Interesting to understand the mechanics of a salary cap.
Does anyone know the rules/information related to the below?
1. How many new players must be brought in per season (national draft, rookie draft etc.) Have a feeling it is at least 2-3 in total?
2. What is base salary for kids drafted? Is it same for those drafted via national or rookie drafts? (E.g IQ vs Appleby)
3. Base salary for players like Tom Wilson, Anton Tohill, Mark Keane. Would this go up next year?
4. Minimum of a salary cap that must be used (i.e. of the total ~12/13mil per year, what percentage band has to be used e.g. 80-100%).
May be wrong but I thought there was a minimum spend per year which raises two questions: (1) why do journos go on about a club having a tight salary cap squeeze if every club has to spend roughly same amount; and (2) what happens to all the money clubs like North don’t end up spending when they don’t land a big fish? |
Q1 if I read it right we must make a minimum of 4 changes per year to satisfy our draft picks
Q2 base salary is $95k plus $4000 per senior match played and milestone payments on reaching 10 & 50 games (amount varies depending on agreement with club
Q3 rookie listed players are on same as 1st year draftees unless upgraded during season hen go to minimum AFL wage (like we did with checkers 2 years ago now he's on full time list and receives whatever agreed salary)
Q4 minimum so earn each year is 95%. If you spend 95% one year you must spend 105% the next so the total rolling cap over a 2 year cycle is spent. This was in the CBA agreement with the players association
Further to K's question before on incentive payments
Every club would budget for incentive payments for games played or milestones. I would hazard a guess this would kick in the following season to the milestone reached
Meaning if Stephenson reached say 50 games he might be due a increase of say $75k starting the following year.
Most clubs would have a rolling schedule for this and have that amount set aside in there budget
My understanding if a club is at 100% of the cap and is struck down by injury and needs to upgrade a player/s onto full time list they can seek a dispensation from the AFL to have that amount set aside to go in the cap the following year meaning there is no breach
If the AFL works similar to NRL (where my experience was) contracts for players are often extended and payments (increases in wages) are spread out further. Last season Sidey re negotiated his deal getting a extension in years but took less money each of the years. Example would be if he had 2 years to run at $600k meaning he would be paid $1.2 million the club could extend his deal and make it $2million over 4 years making it only $500k in the cap but the player gets the guarantee of earning $2 million going forward compared to $1.2million and the club saves $100k a season for other players
I understand that the lions paid a fair part of his remaining salary to get the extra draft pick which also allowed the club to sign him and not squeeze our cap tighter (not knowing the exact figure rumour was lions paid $400k a year for 2 years and Beams then went on our books at $700k for 4 years meaning in it averages out at $500k a season on our cap)
The cap is a ever evolving thing it's very liquid in its operation.
Clubs are always looking for ways to stretch it
Re doing deals is one mechanism also we have veterans allowance
Also being able to offer commercial opportunities outside the cap is a very good way
Being at a club like Collingwood gives the player a higher profile and makes there ability to earn extra $$$ from outside football more possible
Ned Guy knows the workings well being a former player manager and I'm confident he's always looking forward to the players coming off contract and who we need or want to keep
If I knew the exact earnings of each player I could spread sheet it and know exactly what we had to throw at Grundy but in saying that I'm sure the club will be able to find the money some how |
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Ads7
Joined: 24 May 2016
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Post subject: Some good news folks | |
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Isaac Quaynor had initial 2 yr deal 2019/20
Just signed two extra yrs. till end 2022
Great news going into battle _________________ I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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npalm
Joined: 01 May 2005
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Yep, good news.
Hopefully he is a wet weather specialist and celebrates with a BOG performance tonight. _________________ Side by side. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Yes young man Collingwood needs you 👊 _________________ I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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