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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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Woods wrote: | The Mongrel Punt summed it up pretty well :
Collingwood transferred play from side to side across their defensive 50, and they simply could not find a way through the hard-working Eagles defenders and mids. Back and forth they went, trying to find something, but the work of Barrass, and Cole, Hurn and Sheppard was impeccable. It left them with no choice but to go long down the line, and that’s the place where Jeremy McGovern dwells, waiting like a bear to gobble up a trout trying to swim upstream.
It was perfect defensive pressing, and whilst Collingwood were disciplined in not trying to risk a kick into that West Coast web, they just couldn’t get through it. Impressive stuff by West Coast - so well drilled against a team that absolutely picked Richmond apart last week with their foot skills.
https://themongrelpunt.com/afl/2019/04/05/gbueaglespies |
That sums it up perfectly. They've got the wood on us, and I can't see us finding an answer anytime soon. The good news is it hasn't translated to a flogging. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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thebaldfacts wrote: | ...
Played 3 quality sides, so now hopefully can fine tune our game against the lower ranked sides to come. |
Have to wait and see... WC are probably a quality side. Geebung possibly could be. The other one? Well... |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Let the cats, wet toast, be flag favourites now, NOW, Premierships are not won in april, as jack dyer used to say, long.long way to go yet, its a marathon as Malthouse said a lot. _________________ Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Pnc, we are still (unfortunately) equal flag favourites, ahead of WC. It takes more than losses to both of them to have them ahead of us in hype. Simpson must be happy. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | Pendlebury should go permanently to half back, we have an abundance of mids and he can direct traffic much easier from there.
Stephenson should just play as a forward for this season - reassess next season. De Goey should also stay forward, for now.
Won't happen but I'd prefer Sidey to do more time as a forward too, I think people need to weight up his half assed dinky kicks vs his awesome tank vs his ability to sniff out goals.
Remember to win we need to actually kick goals... and we have a LOT of guys capable of running through the midfield.
Varcoe should come back in imo, we miss his pressure. and. hopefully he can get his hands on the actual ball a bit more now he's missed a game. |
Not too bad.
Although Sidey should play full time forward against eagles- they are his kryptonite- he was putrid for 3/4 and only played out of his bum in the 3rd
I also reckon Beams should go to HBF or HFF- he's better with a bit of room to move.
Varcs brings an intangible that can't be measured in stats- he's touch and provides that 'implied pressure' people used to say about Cyril Rioli.
IMO we are a better team with Varcs in it.
Backs were solid- midfield, apart from Tay were ordinary. If WCE had Grundy they would have won by 10 goals.
Forwards excused (although not for poor set shots) due to poor delivery. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Is it just me or do the Eagles shark Grundys hit outs way better than any other team in the comp. I know he isn’t great at tapping to advantage anyway but the Eagles seemed to get so much clean ball out of the centre from his ruckwork. We continue to blame the mids for not getting first use but half the time the Pies mids weren’t even in the same frame to where he tapped it down.
I have especially watched the clearance work from the game a couple times and it’s a telling outcome, particularly under the new rules. We went back to our old habits of giving up to many scores out the back as a result. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Pies2016 wrote: | Is it just me or do the Eagles shark Grundys hit outs way better than any other team in the comp. I know he isn’t great at tapping to advantage anyway but the Eagles seemed to get so much clean ball out of the centre from his ruckwork. We continue to blame the mids for not getting first use but half the time the Pies mids weren’t even in the same frame to where he tapped it down.
I have especially watched the clearance work from the game a couple times and it’s a telling outcome, particularly under the new rules. We went back to our old habits of giving up to many scores out the back as a result. |
No, it's not just you Pies2016. The connection (or rather the absence of it) between Brodie and the mids was discussed earlier in this thread and it was concluded that the Weagles mids definitely seemed to be roving to him. (Maybe it was a ploy for their rucks to allow Grundy to get more hit outs!! ) The discussion of this particular topic started on pg 6 of the thread. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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This is by no means a definitive observation, but it seems to me that Cox wins more direct hit-outs at centre bounces than Brodie does. This would be by virtue of his height and long arms I dare say.
Punching the ball clear of the centre circle was mentioned in this thread and K has drawn attention to it elsewhere. Could Mason, being a newcomer to rucking and so more malleable, be taught to punch clear perhaps? Brodie often seems to do his best work after the ball comes down and is in dispute.
The starting mids could be rotated according to the particular attributes each brings eg have the speed of Treloar waiting for punch outs, whereas Tay might be be suited to the scrimmages resulting from a Grundy tap down.
Anyway, you'd reckon that having a few gifted clearance players on the coaching panel - Bucks, Robert Harvey, Buddha - could sort this problem out!!! |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Magpietothemax wrote: | Interesting analysis Jezza. I will have to look closer at this. I really thought that the Eagles kept dominating us when the ball hit the ground. One has to acknowledge however that their ability to get numbers at every contest was outstanding, and really blocked our ball movement. Much of the poor decision making from our defensive 50 was caused by the Eagles' unremitting pressure on the ball carrier. Main issue i think is the midfield were not running back enough. |
No arguments there. They were better in key moments and deserved the victory.
We need to find a way to counter them in the future, because they currently have our measure. Think it will be damaging to the players psyche if they can't overcome them soon. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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Raw Hammer wrote: | Was just about to write. After quarter time we failed to kick consecutive goals. Horrible. |
I'd consider Cunnington if Sier was to depart the club. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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PyreneesPie wrote: | Pies2016 wrote: | Is it just me or do the Eagles shark Grundys hit outs way better than any other team in the comp. I know he isn’t great at tapping to advantage anyway but the Eagles seemed to get so much clean ball out of the centre from his ruckwork. We continue to blame the mids for not getting first use but half the time the Pies mids weren’t even in the same frame to where he tapped it down.
I have especially watched the clearance work from the game a couple times and it’s a telling outcome, particularly under the new rules. We went back to our old habits of giving up to many scores out the back as a result. |
No, it's not just you Pies2016. The connection (or rather the absence of it) between Brodie and the mids was discussed earlier in this thread and it was concluded that the Weagles mids definitely seemed to be roving to him. (Maybe it was a ploy for their rucks to allow Grundy to get more hit outs!! ) The discussion of this particular topic started on pg 6 of the thread. |
Cheers P P. I probably got sick of all the negativity by about page 3
They are easily the best organised back six in the comp and to be given a free hit with the new 6 6 6 rules and not take advantage of it, was terribly disappointing. The only only time we can effectively divide and conquer their back six is at the centre bounces when it six on six and they have to position themselves wherever our forwards want them.
The ( only ) way to beat them is to win clean ball out of the middle and force them to defend one on one.
As you eluded, we need a better system or connection between Grundy and the mids. The good news is we have a few months to work on it but it starts with the three best clearance players roving to Grundy from the start, not Greenwood tagging in the middle and not having eyes on the ball. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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Pies2016 wrote: |
As you eluded, we need a better system or connection between Grundy and the mids. The good news is we have a few months to work on it but it starts with the three best clearance players roving to Grundy from the start, not Greenwood tagging in the middle and not having eyes on the ball. |
No worries Pies 2016. I just couldn't be bothered re-iterating what had already been said!!
Perhaps another issue is that when we are not achieving clear centre breaks during a game, there seems to be no Plan B, except for changing the mid personnel in the hopes that things will improve.
Another angle could be to change the way the ruckman goes about it (be it Brodie or Mason) and cultivate some surprise tactics. Chuck in a forward punch now and then, or even take advantage of the change to the ruckman's rule: .
"A ruckman who takes direct possession of the ball from a bounce, throw-up or boundary throw-in will no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity".
So they can actually grab the ball at a centre bounce and handball it long out of there. I would think Brodie would have the weight to do that and Mason the height.
Whatever, the Eagles highlighted that it's becoming a major problem for us and it'd be great to see some imaginative solutions!! |
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Clifton Hill-Billy
Joined: 29 Sep 2011 Location: 3068----> 3076
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Kill for Collingwood wrote: | What does "tunnelling" a player mean, please? |
Basically taking out the legs when a player is flying for a mark. See Taylor Adams free kick in the last quarter or any Richmond backman against Cox _________________ "Hey Ma get off the dang roof!" |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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I'll admit I haven't read every post in this thread, but there seems to be a lot of concern in here, I'm not really feeling it to be honest.
I was quite wary of the first 3 games and thought we had every chance of being 0-3, giving the quality of opposition we faced, lets have a look at what's actually happened though;
We played pretty poorly by our standards and lost to what looks to be a very good side by 7 points, not a disaster as far as I'm concerned. Next game we played the side who's effectively been the best H&A Team in the comp for two years and towelled them up. We outworked them around the ground and our coach was well on top of theirs, great result. Third game we've played the reigning premiers who most certainly seem to have the wood over us, were outworked at the contests and soundly beaten in the middle, very poor result.
We've got the following games coming up:
Dogs (H)
Brisbane (A)
Essendon (A)
Port (H)
Carlton (A)
Saints (H)
Swans (A)
Dockers (H)
Melbourne (H)
Dogs (A)
Kangas (H)
Hawks (A)
All before we play the Eagles again. Now, Brissy have been pretty decent so far this, although I still think we should beat them, but outside of them and Hawthorn, that is an incredibly positive run of games for us, we really should be aiming to come out of that run with 1 loss at the most.
Not to mention that gives us 12 weeks to refine, improve and work out how we can beat the Eagles.
1-2 isn't a great start, but we're still a really, really good team IMO, and we can and should demonstrate as much over the next couple of months. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Simpson and WCE with 2018 Round 17 ,Qualifying and GF
Now Round 3 of 2019 —-four solid wins against us
Has our coaching group been able to determine how best to stop this trend ?? _________________ I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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