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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Pies4shaw wrote: | They can compete at the elite level at anything they like that doesn’t depend upon physical prowess. Say, debating, chess, film-making, soccer, macrame, crochet etc. |
One of the truly great posts. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Pies4shaw wrote: | stui magpie wrote: | David wrote: | think positive wrote: | David wrote: | Even if trans female athletes wanted to compete in men's competitions (and it's obvious why they wouldn't want to, as it would be a complete negation of their identity), it's not clear that they would be permitted to under the rules of the sport, given that they are legally female. And, in any case, that would only satisfy the 'fairness' brigade half of the time: we've already seen complaints in this thread about trans male athletes (on hormone replacement therapy) competing in female competition. As I said, some people won't be happy until transgender people retreat to a ghetto and/or disappear from public life altogether. Thankfully, sporting code administrators tend to be a little more forward-thinking. |
thats bullshit David, no one is saying that, not one person has said anything derogatory here. |
Whether or not anyone here openly thinks that, it is the logical conclusion of their arguments – effectively, pushing transgender sportspeople into a convenient corner where they don't have to bother anyone with their presence. Otherwise, I think this is a general view that many people hold, yes.. |
I'm not arguing anything of the sort, and it's not about all transgender people. You notice there has been bugger all issues reported with women transitioning to men who want to play sport?
The issue is about the inherent physical difference between men and women which isn't changed by being transgender and whether someone who has all the physical advantages of being born and growing up male should be competing at the elite level against females.
Someone who's done competitive weightlifting as a male doesn't lose their strength and size by transitioning to female.
No one cared about Hannah Mouncey playing local womens footy, it became an issue when she wanted to play at the elite level.
Considering high level athletes only have a short time frame in which to compete (normally finished by mid 30's) would it really be that big a deal to just say you are legally female, can play social sport as a female with no restrictions, but not at the elite level? |
They can compete at the elite level at anything they like that doesn’t depend upon physical prowess. Say, debating, chess, film-making, soccer, macrame, crochet etc. |
Soccer! LOL.
I agree though _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Tannin wrote: | [quote="Pies4shaw"]They can compete at the elite level at anything they like that doesn’t depend upon physical prowess. Say, debating, chess, film-making, soccer, macrame, crochet etc.[/quote]
One of the truly great posts. | debating chess film-making soccer macrame crochet |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Now <snip – deliberate misgendering isn’t okay> dominating womens handball...
http://dlvr.it/Qt5lm4 _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Skids wrote: | Now <snip – deliberate misgendering isn’t okay> dominating womens handball...
http://dlvr.it/Qt5lm4 |
Why would you assume Skids is referring to Mouncey's gender?
Perhaps he is referring to Mouncey's biological sex?
Can the mods, in their wisdom, advise us whether Mouncey is a biological man playing in a women's handball competition or if Mouncey is a biological woman playing in a women's handball competition. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I’ll direct you to the moderator’s note at the bottom of this post:
http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?p=1863597
Quote: | You are entitled to whatever view you hold on transgender and to argue anything you like on the topic, but what isn't optional in this forum is treating people with this condition with dignity. As such, misgendering someone by sneeringly referring to them as 'he' when they identify otherwise is extremely disrespectful and will be moderated, with repeat offenders warned. |
And no, this isn’t up for debate. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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It's not just Skids, that whole article refers to Mouncey as "he" and FWIW it's written by a woman. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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The article is written by a far-right transphobe and on a site that is proudly committed to misgendering trans people. I’m not thrilled that this is some people’s news source of choice, but the Nick’s BB moderation team’s remit only extends to what’s posted on here. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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David wrote: | The article is written by a far-right transphobe and on a site that is proudly committed to misgendering trans people. I’m not thrilled that this is some people’s news source of choice, but the Nick’s BB moderation team’s remit only extends to what’s posted on here. |
The article quotes Mouncey and states facts from other sources. How that can be labelled as a "far right transphobes" or discriminatory in any way is quite baffling
Actually, here's a link to all of Miss Pretigiacomos articles https://www.dailywire.com/authors/amanda-prestigiacomo ..... please enlighten me on how you come to the conclusion, she's a far right transphobe?
If anyone is being discriminatory David, I'd suggest it's you. _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: Thailand
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They have an annual beach volleyball tournament not far from me every year and it is restricted to ladyboys only. I don't go but from all accounts it is a big success. _________________ Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Welcome to Soviet VPT, do not be of questioning the party line Comrade. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Ironically we’re no more restrictive than The Daily Wire itself, whose style guide (as described by editor Ben Shapiro) forbids its journalists from referring to trans people by the gender that they identify with.
In our case, we’re a discussion forum with certain restrictions on what can be said, including certain forms of identity-based abuse such as racism and homophobia (and no, I didn’t invent that rule; I just try to implement it consistently) partly so that this isn’t a hostile or unwelcoming place for people from minorities and partly so that a certain standard of interaction and conversation is maintained (hence why we have a swear filter and don’t permit personal attacks, for instance).
Dismissing or mocking the recognised and legal gender identities of transgender people may not seem like a big deal to you, but I can assure you that it is. We all make mistakes, and some people may not fully understand what transgender is all about and thus not be aware of the sensitivities around pronouns, but deliberate misgendering is pretty obnoxious and antisocial to say the least. As I said before, this isn’t a thought-police thing: you’re entitled to believe whatever you like about transgender and argue that case in a polite and respectful manner, as this thread has shown. Just don’t be a tool about it and there’ll be no need for moderator intervention. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Back on topic though... Is it really fair that Ms Mouncey competes in the womens world handball event, considering shim played at the highest level in the mens competition?
It would be similar to Mick Martyn putting his hair up in piggy tails and joining the AWFL, wouldn't it? _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/99434993/professor-of-physiology-says-trans-athlete-has-advantage-in-speed-and-power
Women's sports struggle enough to get any market traction and participation. I can tell you as a father of a combat sports athlete (my daughter does martial arts and we're thinking about moving on to either boxing or mixed martial arts soon), it terrifies me that she would have to face a jacked up transgender fighter who has obvious and verifiable physical advantages.
The AFL are doing the right thing in disallowing Mouncey although I can see them bowing to pressure at some point. Women have fought for decades to have recognition and equality and yet again there are biological males moving into their spaces for their own selfish agendas. I'm with the TERFS on this one, let women have women's sports.
The delusion that someone can become a woman with surgery and hormone injections is beyond crazy, it's the only delusion that is treated by pandering to it rather than treating it. How does a man know he's a women anyway having never been one before. How can a man know what women think or feel like? If gender is a construct anyway then why does a trans person need to dress up in 'feminine' clothing or adopt feminine mannerisms? None of this insanity makes any sense. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
A good example would be Bruce Jenner. College footballer, Gold medal winning Olympic decathlete. Now he transitioned to Caitlyn in his 60's no it's not an issue, but if he (or someone like him now) had transitioned in their early 30's and decided to compete as a female in athletics it would be a farce. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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