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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Wokko wrote: | China is pretty much National Socialist at this point. Nobody really wants to talk about it though |
I don’t know if you are at all serious in that claim, but it’s pretty outlandish. China’s international respectability may be greater than it deserves, but it has very few of the characteristics of Nazism.
If there is an historical parallel, it is probably the dictatorial corporate states of Latin America, overlaid with a Confucian respect for reason and discipline. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Nick - Pie Man
Joined: 04 Aug 2010
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What I don't understand is the phenomenon of thirty plus somethings like myself, who've lived through the crazy 'the world is broken and only I know how to fix it' phase of their lives, now pretending not to understand what motivates the next generation of anarchist assholes. They're young naive and stupid, stupid. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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But what about those over 50s who still hang onto those belefs they had in their late teens? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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I think the hardest thing for us to grasp is the fact that the myths we live by are not useful world observations, but rather extremely idiosyncratic scripts which make little sense beyond their inner psychological context. Combine that with fact that we're self obsessed by virtue of our embodiment, and we have two challenges which cripple our bid to be more 'rational' before it gets going.
And yet, in coordination we can often achieve great and sophisticated things. Somehow, marrow from our inner nonsense is extracted and applied in concert with others, hence our advanced social brains. Even then, though, group bonds threaten to spoil those gains by directing them to oppressive and parochial ends.
Sometimes, I wonder how we get anything done between us! _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ very gnomic. What do you want us to do with it ? If anything, you might need to translate it into the terms of the debate posed in the OP. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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I would like to study psychology and maybe go into law or politics. |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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Most of these inner urban socialists are generally just wearing the uniform, their need to sound sophisticated in coffee shops by quoting Marx and obscure but ‘very important' French philosophers is their way of dick waiving.
The same kind of dick waiving that drives rich industrialists to buy a room full of expensive ‘art’ they secretly don’t like but have to have in order to feel they are among the self-proclaimed cultural elite mentioned above. _________________ Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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^ Both sound like caricatures to me. How closely do you know such people? When did you last come across someone quoting French philosophy in a cafe? Were they wearing a beret, smoking a cigarette and holding a baguette under their arm?
For full disclosure, I’ve had the odd conversation about philosophy in the past, with people who looked nothing like that cartoon and who weren’t in any way putting on airs. Of course, god forbid that anyone should actually be interested in such things. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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^
that's because it is a caricature, its not that far from the truth.
I worked in a Jazz club, it was full broke intellectuals sitting in corners occupying space drinking water not spending money and talking about obscure but important jazz musicians. These kinds of people wear the same social and intellectual uniform, and it sticks out a mile.
By the way the Jazz club went broke and I went to work in the Annandale which was full of third rate punk musicians playing songs 'about a girl' that all sounded the same and was full of students not spending any money. _________________ Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Lol, fair enough. Hardcore jazz devotees are certainly an interesting breed (each to their own, though!) _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Hardcore devotees of anything are the enemy. That said, I have a list of classes of hardcore devotees of things that I keep for reference, just in case the revolution comes.
After the board of directors of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation (apols to Douglas Adams) and all of the people deluded by religious beliefs who think they have “special knowledge” (as distinct from a sectionable illness), jazz enthusiasts are on the list (but certainly well down) of those who will be against the wall, in due course. In fact, by the time my list gets down to jazz enthusiasts, there may not be too many others left to do the shooting. It will be a dour world, but relatively quiet (save for the sound of 1,000,000,000 children practising their Liszt as part of their re-education).😄
By the way, I’ve just been eating a pie and listening to Bono whine something on the radio from Joshua Tree (it wasn’t that galumphing one in D about looking for things, it was something else - yes, I have the album but even after 30 years or so, I still can’t really tell which song is which). It’s fair to say “jazz enthusiasts” just went down a row on my list. |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: SA
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As you say , each to their own , thing was I actually like Jazz and liked working with the musicians but we all hated some of the fans who seemed to have this fake intellectual attitude. _________________ Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ very gnomic. What do you want us to do with it ? If anything, you might need to translate it into the terms of the debate posed in the OP. |
Well, we run by silly world generalisations in our head - a die hard socialist with utopian visions, or someone who actually thinks Chardonnay socialism is a meaningful entity worth building serious thought around - and run afoul when they're verbalised and held to rational account.
How that level of nonsense gets us anywhere is anyone's guess, yet here we are in an advanced civilisation, ourselves both relying on and uttering this stuff day and night.
Of course, we do engage in 'Newtonian' facts, with our use of those no doubt holding a lot of society together, but so much of our lives involve absurd myth and speculation.
Anyhow, I'm out of time again, so I may just have made that first comment more obscure. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ these may or may not be silly generalizations. But since there are groups of people who share complexes of attitudes, and sociology isn’t literature, it’s reasonable, and indeed necessary, to use abstractions and class concepts when discussing them. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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pietillidie wrote: | Mugwump wrote: | ^ very gnomic. What do you want us to do with it ? If anything, you might need to translate it into the terms of the debate posed in the OP. |
Well, we run by silly world generalisations in our head - a die hard socialist with utopian visions, or someone who actually thinks Chardonnay socialism is a meaningful entity worth building serious thought around - and run afoul when they're verbalised and held to rational account.
How that level of nonsense gets us anywhere is anyone's guess, yet here we are in an advanced civilisation, ourselves both relying on and uttering this stuff day and night.
Of course, we do engage in 'Newtonian' facts, with our use of those no doubt holding a lot of society together, but so much of our lives involve absurd myth and speculation.
Anyhow, I'm out of time again, so I may just have made that first comment more obscure. |
gees short post! im missing your essays! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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