Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Who are our now or never players?

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion
 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:40 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

K wrote:
On Aish & Naish, not that we care about the latter (and don't ask me about Ish)...

Quote:
...
Naish’s junior career failed Champion Data’s “Magic Number” rule.

That states that draft prospects who win less than 30 per cent of their possessions contested usually struggle in the AFL.
...

A bunch of high draft picks have failed to kick on after recording similar numbers — James Aish, Billy Hartung, Cale Morton and Jimmy Toumpas.
...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/richmond-could-secure-fatherson-patrick-naish-outside-its-top-three-draft-picks/news-story/9111bbfaa400548255a7beb52bee7762


I'm not sure it's as simple as you're suggesting. Naish seems a pretty good player to me, a draft pick around 10-30 was about right to me. Aish will come good this year when he puts on a bit more muscle and holds his ground around the opposition. Buckley's contested possession rate when he played in the NT wasn't exactly high. Players if they're any good adapt to any competition they play in. Some people resort to stats to prove a point when they don't really understand what they're talking about.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:54 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
...

I'm not sure it's as simple as you're suggesting. Naish seems a pretty good player to me, a draft pick around 10-30 was about right to me. Aish will come good this year when he puts on a bit more muscle and holds his ground around the opposition. Buckley's contested possession rate when he played in the NT wasn't exactly high. Players if they're any good adapt to any competition they play in. Some people resort to stats to prove a point when they don't really understand what they're talking about.


I'm neither endorsing nor denouncing their claim, BIFC. I'm just putting the claim out there. Their guys who came up with it may be a bunch of clowns, for all I know. On the other hand, if it turns out they are clowns, then it should also be noted that they are full-time clowns with a whole stash of data not available to us.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:13 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Good list, RudeBoy. My list in no particular order, without factoring in contracts is:

Fasolo - I understand he's been dealing with personal issues, which isn't easy for anyone, but I feel he's at a stage of his career where he must display more consistency rather than only showing glimpses of what he's capable of. His goal kicking stats are not too bad, with 27 goals in 2015 (17 games), 25 goals in 2016 (12 games) and 27 goals in 2017 (19 games). The aim for Fas would be to score 40 goals in 2018. He's potential trade bait, but at his best he's a valuable member of the team in a team that is crying out for some goalscoring power.

Scharenberg - He's had no luck on the injury front, but it was great to see him have a good run at it in the latter half of last year. He needs to build on that form heading into 2018, but the club obviously rates him highly that they've been very patient and while his spot on the list may be under a slight threat, I think he will be safe if he can churn out about 15 games next season and start to consolidate a spot in the senior team. I don't regard him as a "now or never" prospect in the strict sense though despite being included on this list.

Aish - The most obvious candidate of a player who needs to start delivering. There's no doubting he has talent to burn, but as it stands he's been underwhelming for supporters and the wider footy public. He seems to lack a physical presence and needs to find a purpose to be in the team. A massive 2018 confronts him.

Mayne - He's been the much maligned player of the club, but the expectations on him are very low, so he potentially has the ability to work his way up into the team without too much pressure. I'm not expecting much, but considering it's a four-year investment, I'd like to think it's not a complete waste yet, and the club needs to find another handy goalscoring target.

McLarty - Could be a harsh nomination, but he's yet to play a senior game and we're in a situation where no one is sure whether he can break into the team in 2018. We're crying out for someone of his height to play senior football, but like Scharenberg, I don't think it's "now or never" for him just yet but he will be under pressure to get some senior game time this year.

Broomhead - Had his best year in 2017, and may have saved his career for another year. Still needs to do more to retain a spot on the list in the long-term. Has the goods to be a meaningful and valuable contributor to the team.

Sier - Taken as our first pick in the 2015 draft, and still sounds like he's nowhere near playing senior football which is somewhat concerning. I understand he was a year behind most when he was drafted, but if he doesn't develop well in 2018, he could be in trouble especially with him being out of contract at the end of the year.

Crocker - Entering his third year and a player that stalled last year after a promising first year in 2016 where he played 10 games as opposed to only three last year. The question that remains with Crocker is barring his natural goal kicking ability, does he have any other weapons that can make him a valuable member of the team in the long-term?

Smith - Had a great 2016, but was lucky to hang on to his spot at the end of last year. Needs a big 2018 if he's going to remain on the list beyond this year.

Thomas - Did very well to break his way into the team after a two-year absence. If he can build on from last year, he'll probably be safe.

Oxley - Like Smith, he was lucky to hang on to his spot, and I think this will be his final year with the club barring some miracle.

_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 |
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Magpietothemax 



Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:38 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree totally Rudeboy with your argument. You are saying simply that the players on your list need to perform this year, otherwise their future is in doubt. There is no judgement on your part as to whether or not they are capable: your argument is that this is their last chance.
Would agree with:
Broomhead, Aisch, Thomas, Scharenberg
I think Scharenberg can make it, but needs to demonstrate this year that he can,
Would add to this list Oxley.
Would not include : Sier (still very young)
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Who are our now or never players?Reply with quote

RudeBoy wrote:
Here is my list of players who have been on our list for while, but, for various reasons, mainly a history of injuries, have yet to cement a regular senior spot. For these players, I'd suggest that 2018 will be their make or break seasons, by which time they'll either become regular senior players or will face the chop.

Aish - comes from great pedigree, but so far has failed to deliver.

Scharenberg - cruelled by in juries, but this being his 4th (or is it 5th?) year, it's time for him to perform on the big stage and cement a spot in our best 22.

Sier - entering his 3rd year without a senior game, and without much VFL form either, he'll either make it this year or be delisted at the season's end.

Broomhead - has showed glimpses, but has so far failed to string many good games together. With Daicos, Kirby and the Brown brothers on the rise, Broomhead must improve this season or else it will be his last at the Pies.

Thomas - given a life-line in 2017, he (like Broomhead) needs to grab a spot and make it his own this year, or else he'll find himself surpassed by the next wave of young midfielders on our list.


I understand your thoughts rude but I have to disagree on Scharenberg (surprise surprise)
He's injuries may as you've suggested may have put him in the spotlight to supporters I doubt the club feels the same. Buckley is a known Scharenberg fan and the clubs management of him last year showed they were in to him for the long term. I've been bullish about him for a long time and he's that's based on his junior footy. I hope I'm right and the only basis I have to be so bullish is the long used phrase form is temporary class is forever !!
The others all have to really show something this year I agree but for some they would only be emergency players and not expected to be stars in the starting 22.
The name I would add to the list is Langdon.
I'm a critic of the kid granted but his form last season was very ordinary and never reached the heights it had in 2015. I think he's a player who's best is decent but he doesn't have any outstanding attributes to make him a best 22 player. He's not quick, only a average kick, body work isn't great, marking is fair, disposal can be iffy at times and he doesn't have a big boot. He's off contract at the end of 2018 and the way the club recruited a couple HBF types with speed means our game plan may evolve away from him. He would be in direct competition with Scharenberg Murray both who offer more across the board in different skills.
I won't death ride the kid but I don't see him being a certain best 22 player and with the list only being able to carry so many HBF types this will be important year for him.
Finally also whilst they aren't in the same boat both Wells and Varcoe could be put into this list as well.
Wells needs to play games this year (depending on which number is correct) he must play between 12-16 games to trigger the final year of his deal. We went 7-1-1 with him in the side last year. He twinkly adds class to our side but he needs to play IMO 15-18 games for us to be a finals chance. He can't at his age and history afford another injury stop-start season.
Varcoe has shown the past 2 years his body may be letting him down. At his best that his shown at the the club he's been a very good recruit for us. His speed and skill add to us in a big way but like Wells he can't have a stop start season again. We've recruited some speed in Murray and Stephenson so we have cover in that department covered (skill wise isn't the same)
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:48 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

/\ not Sidey?

Smile Razz Twisted Evil

_________________
You never look good trying to make someone else look bad. Disrespecting & insulting other to prove your point just shows how shaky your own position is.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:55 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Jezza is spot on in everything he said, but just on Scharenberg, I watched him a number of times during his rehab, running circles around the training track when everybody else was in and running around Alexandria gardens along the running track there. If anybody deserves the reward for hard work during his recovery, he does and I only hope he has a great year this year and dispels the fears of a few here that he won't succeed.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
MOTR 



Joined: 24 Apr 2003


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Who are our now or never players?Reply with quote

RudeBoy wrote:
Here is my list of players who have been on our list for while, but, for various reasons, mainly a history of injuries, have yet to cement a regular senior spot. For these players, I'd suggest that 2018 will be their make or break seasons, by which time they'll either become regular senior players or will face the chop.

Aish - comes from great pedigree, but so far has failed to deliver.

Scharenberg - cruelled by in juries, but this being his 4th (or is it 5th?) year, it's time for him to perform on the big stage and cement a spot in our best 22.

Sier - entering his 3rd year without a senior game, and without much VFL form either, he'll either make it this year or be delisted at the season's end.

Broomhead - has showed glimpses, but has so far failed to string many good games together. With Daicos, Kirby and the Brown brothers on the rise, Broomhead must improve this season or else it will be his last at the Pies.

Thomas - given a life-line in 2017, he (like Broomhead) needs to grab a spot and make it his own this year, or else he'll find himself surpassed by the next wave of young midfielders on our list.


Wow

That’s a pretty talented list.

_________________
Be Staunch, Be Proud, Be Collingwood
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Who are our now or never players?Reply with quote

MOTR wrote:
RudeBoy wrote:
Here is my list ...

Aish - comes from great pedigree, but so far has failed to deliver.
Scharenberg - cruelled by in juries, but ...
Sier - entering his 3rd year without a senior game, ...
Broomhead - has showed glimpses, but ...
Thomas - given a life-line in 2017, he (like Broomhead) needs to ...


Wow

That’s a pretty talented list.


Rudey (in stern voice): "With talent comes responsibility."
Wink
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Jezza wrote:
Good list, RudeBoy. My list in no particular order, without factoring in contracts is:.....


McLarty - Could be a harsh nomination, but he's yet to play a senior game and we're in a situation where no one is sure whether he can break into the team in 2018. We're crying out for someone of his height to play senior football, but like Scharenberg, I don't think it's "now or never" for him just yet but he will be under pressure to get some senior game time this year.

.......


A bit harsh? Just a wee bit understated Jezza. I see where you're coming from but the kid needs a chance to grow & develop. Bigger players take time & despite wearing the #35 I reckon that's very harsh.

"Selection No. 30 – Sam McLarty

Position: Tall utility
Height: 193cm
Weight: 93kg
Born: 11/5/1998
Recruited from: Oakleigh U18

Profile

Last year saw McLarty come onto the scene as an athletic key defender for the Oakleigh Chargers as they stormed towards the TAC Cup premiership. This season the key position prospect has spent more time in an attacking role, and he has enjoyed some strong displays near goal. He has some natural spring, attacks the ball well in the air and can have sticky hands in marking contests. McLarty had only limited exposure at the national championships as he was coming back from injury and was underdone, but it's hard to find quality talls this year"


I'm not too far off 193 cm and he is way taller than 193cm when I congratulated him post a VFL game last year.

_________________
Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born? Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby. (Chico Marx in Duck Soup)
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:41 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

think positive wrote:
/\ not Sidey?

Smile Razz Twisted Evil

Even Qld isn’t silly enough to argue that we should sack both the Future Captain and the Reigning Club Champion.

Meanwhile, Langdon got coaches’ votes in 2 games, having been rushed back, underdone, into the team because he’s an automatic selection, and Scharenberg nil.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:50 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
think positive wrote:
/\ not Sidey?

Smile Razz Twisted Evil

Even Qld isn’t silly enough to argue that we should sack both the Future Captain and the Reigning Club Champion.

Meanwhile, Langdon got coaches’ votes in 2 games, having been rushed back, underdone, into the team because he’s an automatic selection, and Scharenberg nil.


Yes Rashamon, and in all the other games Langdon played he didn't get coaches votes.

_________________
Attorney: Chicolini, when were you born? Chicolini: I don't remember. I was just a little baby. (Chico Marx in Duck Soup)
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:09 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

More on Aish:

As those who've watched it may recall, episode 6 of The Grind on the club website has a segment (starting at around 3:45) on Aish, who basically acknowledges his situation.
Quote:

This is really my first pre-season without having surgery. ...
I've probably put on about three kilos. ...
It's frustrating being in and out. It's not where I want to be. I want to be valuable to the team... In many ways, I'm sort of sick of walking off the ground not putting in a good performance. ...


Aside: Does anyone else find his accent slightly unusual?
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw 



Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:12 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

watt price tully wrote:
Pies4shaw wrote:
think positive wrote:
/\ not Sidey?

Smile Razz Twisted Evil

Even Qld isn’t silly enough to argue that we should sack both the Future Captain and the Reigning Club Champion.

Meanwhile, Langdon got coaches’ votes in 2 games, having been rushed back, underdone, into the team because he’s an automatic selection, and Scharenberg nil.


Yes Rashamon, and in all the other games Langdon played he didn't get coaches votes.

And in all the games Scharenberg played, he didn't get a vote.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:40 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Magpietothemax wrote:
Agree totally Rudeboy with your argument. You are saying simply that the players on your list need to perform this year, otherwise their future is in doubt. There is no judgement on your part as to whether or not they are capable: your argument is that this is their last chance.
Would agree with:
Broomhead, Aisch, Thomas, Scharenberg
I think Scharenberg can make it, but needs to demonstrate this year that he can,
Would add to this list Oxley.
Would not include : Sier (still very young)


Thanks MTTM. I agree with you about Oxley too.

Seems you're one of the few who understood what I was saying. I wasn't passing judgement either way on any of these players, but rather, simply stating that given they have been on a senior AFL list for a few years now, they will need to prove their worth in 2018 if they are to remain on our list beyond this season.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 10 Hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 2 of 5   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group