What a hypocritical Country!

HAL · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:16 am

What does seem to be true in much of Europe ?

David · I dare you to try Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda

Mugwump · Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne

^ fair enough, though I have deep doubts about the whole system - but let's not derail the thread.

Skids · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:22 pm

What a *&^*(&%$% disgrace! Evil or Very Mad

Australia to provide funding to help Indonesia boost tourism, create 10 new Balis

Australia's ambassador to Indonesia has emphasised the Federal Government's commitment to try and help boost tourism in Indonesia.

On Monday, Paul Grigson said Australia would be providing funding through the World Bank to help create 10 new Balis.

That commitment reportedly dominated discussions with Indonesia's Maritime Affairs Minister, Luhut Pandjaitan, in Jakarta on Monday afternoon.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-18/australia-to-provide-funding-to-help-indonesia-boost-tourism/8717926?pfmredir=sm

David · I dare you to try Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda

I'm certain that we wouldn't be doing it if we didn't think we'd get something in return, whether that's better trade deals, military collaboration or whatever � all I know is that there's nothing altruistic about this.

Pa Marmo · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:19 pm

David · I dare you to try Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda

No. One might cross a dangerous sea for a generalised idea of a safer, wealthier life, but I doubt anyone comes specifically for the kewl Centrelink benefits. Why insist on thinking the worst of people?

stui magpie · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:24 pm

David · I dare you to try Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda

What is your evidence for that assertion?

stui magpie · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Various articles I've read, the correlation between those European countries that were "destination" countries for refugees vs those that weren't.

I'm not suggesting it's the only reason but it is definitely a pull factor when you look at the countries refugees bypass to try to get into one that has welfare

David · I dare you to try Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda

If so, I suspect the strong correlation between welfare and standard of living accounts for a good deal of that. I doubt many asylum seekers are actually intending to stay unemployed for a long period of time.

Seems really prejudicial and lacking in empathy to assign this as a motivation when just the chance to live in a stable, non-violent society is so out of reach for so many people in the world, and when the push factors of civil war and severe poverty are so obvious. It seems to come from a place of presuming that asylum seekers are, by and large, ne'er-do-wells, which I suppose is one reason why the government's lock-'em-up-and-throw-away-the-key policy has proven so popular.

stui magpie · Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:30 pm

prejudicial my arse. lacking empathy I'll take but the term I prefer is pragmatic.

Of course there's a strong correlation between living standards and welfare, your standard of living is better in a place with welfare than a place without when you can't/won't get employment.

Mugwump · Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne

Crossing many other countries for a generalised desire for a wealthier life is a perfectly respectable ambition, but it makes you an economic migrant, not an asylum seeker. I think the passports vanish because it makes asylum claims easier and so the people smugglers recommend it to their clients. I think we have done a real disservice to genuine asylum claimants through this elision between asylum and illegal migration, and the question of empathy is thus more complex than it seems at face value. As so often, the desire to do good can lead to worse consequences if it proceeds from a false premise.

David · I dare you to try Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda

think positive · Side By Side Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere

Fair enough, but what about once they get here? Friends working in the education system, Centrelink and dept of human services all tell the same stories of lack of understanding of our laws, etc. and resources stretched to the limit. how many is too many? Too many to educate, feed, and yes, control.

For what it's worth I agree to a point, not too many would risk a leaky boat if they didnt have to, but some do. I would think there is a lot more of it in and around Europe because it's a lot easier and cheaper to travel around there.

I also get your point about economic refugees looking for a better life, hell thats why those of us without chain marks are here, but do it the right way. Surely we should get all the homeless and struggling Aussie citizens right first before that's a consideration?

I reckon it's No different from the welfare system problems here - cheats make it hard for the genuine cases.