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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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A lot of conservatives in the '90s idolised Singapore for its authoritarian approach to law and order (banning chewing gum and the like). I'd wager that such police states seem a lot more fun from a distance. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Police state? Maybe.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32090420
All human behaviour is driven by consequences, positive and negative. To drive the behaviour you want you need both the carrot and the stick working in balance, sometimes that means harsh consequences for undesired behaviour. eg, drink driving.
Which is the Police state? Getting the cane for spitting on the footpath or getting fired for sending a tweet? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Singapore is effectively a one-party state, so it passes laws about silly things like chewing gum. However, treating wilful and consequential violations of the laws of parliament with severity is not especially authoritarian. It is simply a healthy democratic community's way of holding itself together and making progress, rather than succumbing to the regressive selfishness of the criminal. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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... and any fair minded person who has seen Singapore in 1975, as I first did, and today, will recognise that this place has seen perhaps the greatest miracle of domestic human development and enrichment in the history of humanity, by applying ruthlessly meritocratic principles and being pragmatic about what the state can do. In that, he was enormously helped by the stability of the Chinese and Asian family, the greatest system of social welfare ever devised before it was destroyed by "progressives". It is not my culture, so I would not do it that way, but on any reckoning Lee Kuan Yew is one of the greatest and most successful statesmen that has ever lived. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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YES Stui that is perfect!!!! 👍
I love Singapore it's so clean - it's nice not to step or sit in grubby people's chewing gum, lovely to walk down streets that don't pong to high heaven from rubbish, the public transport is excellent clean and reliable and always feel very safe there!
Looking forward to returning in Sep for the F1
Wasn't it a zero tolerance approach to even little things like littering that the Mayor (? Rudy something or other) implemented to clean up and deal with New York's crime?? _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ yes, zero tolerance was a key policy in Giuliani's clean up of New York. I also spent some time in NYC in the 1980s, and it was horrible and grungy and stagnant then, compared to the relatively clean, efficient and funky city it is today. How "progressives" manage to describe themselves thus, when real progress so obviously asphyxiates from their policies, is a continual mystery. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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This is the 'broken windows' social theory that remains controversial to this day. Of course, even the results of Giuliani's policies remain open to interpretation: depending on who you ask, New York is an unprecedented hotbed of crime (according to Trump and many Republicans) or safer and less dangerous than ever (many sociologists). Both have all the statistics and graphs you could wish for.
Personally, I liked the graffiti.
https://youtu.be/sTp14dhnNdI _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Simple.
Society is Utterly F**ked _________________ I am Da Man |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Unless things are obviously "worse" across a number of major socioeconomic measures, and they aren't, it's an impossible question to answer because it's beset with personal preference, psychological projection, and incentives to talk rubbish.
It should be basic knowledge that our perception of the world is filtered by individual psychiatry, but the prevalence of illusions like Good Old Days Syndrome, and the daily stream of imaginary social panics, seem to indicate otherwise.
Even good efforts at objective analysis are sabotaged by the stories we tell ourselves (mostly to motivate and justify our behaviour). These stories can cast present life as heaven, hell, or anything between, regardless of the data at our fingertips.
The upside of this is that it makes happiness highly "elastic", so even in shite circumstances we have the capability to conjure up a sense of happiness. The downside is there might be a huge disconnect between the world and our imaginations.
To get anywhere with this question, one would have to take both the distortions of individual psychiatry and the known socioeconomic data seriously. Unfortunately, many people are frightened of self awareness on the one hand, and too time poor or careless to grapple with the data on the other. But that won't stop them feeling sure, just sure, we're living in heaven or hell. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ thread title oversimplifies what the debate was about, but David was kind and diligent to split it out of the Pell thread, and it's nearly impossible to encapsulate a thread post facto. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Way worse.... if you need an explanation, you're under 30, your phone is never out of reach and the world owes you something.
Good luck Mother Future, this place is $%$ed. _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Skids wrote: | Way worse.... if you need an explanation, you're under 30, your phone is never out of reach and the world owes you something.
Good luck Mother Future, this place is $%$ed. |
Sums it up! Although I do have one daughter with a social conscience! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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think positive wrote: | Skids wrote: | Way worse.... if you need an explanation, you're under 30, your phone is never out of reach and the world owes you something.
Good luck Mother Future, this place is $%$ed. |
Sums it up! Although I do have one daughter with a social conscience! |
I got 3 TP and a grand daughter in 2 months.
Gee it really is scary to think what is ahead for our kids and their kids... let's hope Captain America takes over and Justice prevails _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Captain America won't cut it. If this country is going to have a future it will be the working class people who will make it once the over educated nuff nuffs and their hipster mates stuff things up and get jettisoned. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Skids wrote: | think positive wrote: | Skids wrote: | Way worse.... if you need an explanation, you're under 30, your phone is never out of reach and the world owes you something.
Good luck Mother Future, this place is $%$ed. |
Sums it up! Although I do have one daughter with a social conscience! |
I got 3 TP and a grand daughter in 2 months.
Gee it really is scary to think what is ahead for our kids and their kids... let's hope Captain America takes over and Justice prevails |
yeah i actually have 2, but the other isnt really very socially conscious!
congrats on the grandy xxx _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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