#5 Jordan De Goey
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| BBHS wrote: | | I was at that U18 GF at Etihad. He played mid & half forward, even some time down back. Got 29 Possessions with those 10 snags and was everywhere. Just ran riot like he had his own footy. So no didn't just play a small forward role. Played every bloody role I remember. |
You may be right, but I was there too and I mainly remember him near goals. One of us has dementia. Where am I and who are you????  |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| Tannin wrote: | He looks out of sorts. He isn't holding marks, he isn't getting kicks, and he's not a shadow of the player he was in late 2016.
I present three possibilities:
(1) He is pissed off with life, with football, and especially with the club and is looking to be traded.
(2) He just hasn't managed to get his form back after injury - don't forget, he's only a youngster and youngsters don't step straight back into senior football carrying on where they left off the way 150-game players do. Just cut him a little slack and await results.
(3) He struggles to play deep forward and needs to be promoted back into the guts, which is what he's good at. In particular, he (like Fasolo) is trying to play like a KPP - flying for marks and dropping them - instead of getting front and centre like a proper small. Once Cox comes back to his proper place in the goal square and starts bringing the ball to ground, JDG will start scouting the packs and snapping truly. (Farcealolo, meanwhile, will keep trying to outmark blokes three feet taller than he is and wondering why the coach is not impressed with him.)
Which of the three do I think most likely? I'll sit on the fence and say a equal parts all three. If he can pick up 30-odd possessions and a couple of goals, he'll forget all about being pissed off and uninterested and start performing to his ability, which is enormous. |
50-50 2 and 3 for mine, I think both are very insightful comments
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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Maybe a case of too many midfielders, not enough positions.....taking the stacked midfielder approach was always going to raise this issue
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | neil wrote: | | E wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | I think he's a midfielder playing the wrong position.
Put him on the ball tell him to win it and run forward as a support act linking up with Pendles Treloar Wells
Move Sidey to the small forward position (his best position) and tell him not to venture more than 30 from goal.
Bring Varcoe (replaces Aish) back in to play the outside mid role Sidey played as he has more line breaking speed, is a better tackler, links up better with the HBF line is a decent kick and can run nearly as well as Sidey.
Adams and JDG hunting the ball will win us more contests than it losses.
Sidey could well be the best foil to Elliott as he won't fly for marks he no chance of getting near like Faz and Blair do and can use his smarts around goal
I would like to Sidey played as a full time small forward could see him being a 35+ goal kicker each season easily.
JDG Adams Pendles Treloar Crisp Greenwood Wells Varcoe Phillips are more than enough mids and can play a variety of roles and all offer something a little different from each other and can all kick goals from the midfield |
the reason i disagree with this is because Sidey's goal attack is made possible by the fact that he outruns his midfield opponents. if you play him as a permanent forward on a permanent back, he is liable to get shut down just as other small forwards get shut down. i'd continue to play him in a wing role, but encourage him to get forward of the ball more often than he does. |
agree put sidey as a permanent small forward the other sides will piss themselves laughing. Sideys great strength is his endurance so why waste in that position |
I watched the replay for the first time last night. The problem isn't our small forwards. Sidebottom won't solve anything there. Our problem is lack of height on the forward line. Even the commentators were saying it. In the third quarter all the players were doing something. Even Fasolo produced a knock on against two Hawthorn guys twice his height which produced a goal. If we keep pitting Fasolo against defenders twice his height he'll be ruined as a footballer. He's almost at that point where he should be dropped. Greenwood offered us something at F/F as well, but he's not the answer there. Just because the side won people are saying we can operate a small forward line. Well we can't. When we come up against a side who defends better than Hawthorn did and who has a midfield which can take it up to us, then it's all back to square one for us. |
For all his undoubted weaknesses, of which there are many, right now our side would be much improved if we had White in the forward line. My guess is once he's recovered from his hammy, after the bye he will return and we'll have a much better structure, with both Moore and White able to assist Grundy in the ruck. With Varcoe, White and possibly Wills to be included in our team in the 2nd half of the year, we should be a considerably better team. |
You're absolutely right. I never thought I would miss White after he was dropped. Just shows that you don't appreciate what you have until it's taken away from you. |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | neil wrote: | | E wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | I think he's a midfielder playing the wrong position.
Put him on the ball tell him to win it and run forward as a support act linking up with Pendles Treloar Wells
Move Sidey to the small forward position (his best position) and tell him not to venture more than 30 from goal.
Bring Varcoe (replaces Aish) back in to play the outside mid role Sidey played as he has more line breaking speed, is a better tackler, links up better with the HBF line is a decent kick and can run nearly as well as Sidey.
Adams and JDG hunting the ball will win us more contests than it losses.
Sidey could well be the best foil to Elliott as he won't fly for marks he no chance of getting near like Faz and Blair do and can use his smarts around goal
I would like to Sidey played as a full time small forward could see him being a 35+ goal kicker each season easily.
JDG Adams Pendles Treloar Crisp Greenwood Wells Varcoe Phillips are more than enough mids and can play a variety of roles and all offer something a little different from each other and can all kick goals from the midfield |
the reason i disagree with this is because Sidey's goal attack is made possible by the fact that he outruns his midfield opponents. if you play him as a permanent forward on a permanent back, he is liable to get shut down just as other small forwards get shut down. i'd continue to play him in a wing role, but encourage him to get forward of the ball more often than he does. |
agree put sidey as a permanent small forward the other sides will piss themselves laughing. Sideys great strength is his endurance so why waste in that position |
I watched the replay for the first time last night. The problem isn't our small forwards. Sidebottom won't solve anything there. Our problem is lack of height on the forward line. Even the commentators were saying it. In the third quarter all the players were doing something. Even Fasolo produced a knock on against two Hawthorn guys twice his height which produced a goal. If we keep pitting Fasolo against defenders twice his height he'll be ruined as a footballer. He's almost at that point where he should be dropped. Greenwood offered us something at F/F as well, but he's not the answer there. Just because the side won people are saying we can operate a small forward line. Well we can't. When we come up against a side who defends better than Hawthorn did and who has a midfield which can take it up to us, then it's all back to square one for us. |
For all his undoubted weaknesses, of which there are many, right now our side would be much improved if we had White in the forward line. My guess is once he's recovered from his hammy, after the bye he will return and we'll have a much better structure, with both Moore and White able to assist Grundy in the ruck. With Varcoe, White and possibly Wills to be included in our team in the 2nd half of the year, we should be a considerably better team. |
You're absolutely right. I never thought I would miss White after he was dropped. Just shows that you don't appreciate what you have until it's taken away from you. |
Joni Mitchell Theory in praxis
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"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | neil wrote: | | E wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | I think he's a midfielder playing the wrong position.
Put him on the ball tell him to win it and run forward as a support act linking up with Pendles Treloar Wells
Move Sidey to the small forward position (his best position) and tell him not to venture more than 30 from goal.
Bring Varcoe (replaces Aish) back in to play the outside mid role Sidey played as he has more line breaking speed, is a better tackler, links up better with the HBF line is a decent kick and can run nearly as well as Sidey.
Adams and JDG hunting the ball will win us more contests than it losses.
Sidey could well be the best foil to Elliott as he won't fly for marks he no chance of getting near like Faz and Blair do and can use his smarts around goal
I would like to Sidey played as a full time small forward could see him being a 35+ goal kicker each season easily.
JDG Adams Pendles Treloar Crisp Greenwood Wells Varcoe Phillips are more than enough mids and can play a variety of roles and all offer something a little different from each other and can all kick goals from the midfield |
the reason i disagree with this is because Sidey's goal attack is made possible by the fact that he outruns his midfield opponents. if you play him as a permanent forward on a permanent back, he is liable to get shut down just as other small forwards get shut down. i'd continue to play him in a wing role, but encourage him to get forward of the ball more often than he does. |
agree put sidey as a permanent small forward the other sides will piss themselves laughing. Sideys great strength is his endurance so why waste in that position |
I watched the replay for the first time last night. The problem isn't our small forwards. Sidebottom won't solve anything there. Our problem is lack of height on the forward line. Even the commentators were saying it. In the third quarter all the players were doing something. Even Fasolo produced a knock on against two Hawthorn guys twice his height which produced a goal. If we keep pitting Fasolo against defenders twice his height he'll be ruined as a footballer. He's almost at that point where he should be dropped. Greenwood offered us something at F/F as well, but he's not the answer there. Just because the side won people are saying we can operate a small forward line. Well we can't. When we come up against a side who defends better than Hawthorn did and who has a midfield which can take it up to us, then it's all back to square one for us. |
Putting Sidebottom forward is one of the silliest things people keep repeating on here. He is not a "small forward", he's our second-best midfielder. He's as slow as a coach, so he can't apply defensive pressure in the forward-line and he actually creates his goals with endurance running. Apart from which, proper analysis of the game shows that he turns up doing great work all over the field, all the time. A number of the scoring chains in the third and last quarters were created deep in the backline by him drawing defenders to him and then putting a handball out to advantage. He also cleans up around the backline and prevents the opposition scoring because he reads the game well and gets to the fall of the ball.
It seems to me that people tend look too much at total "disposal" numbers and get very excited when some players get over 30 with whole lot of pointless defensive handballs. A 25-disposal game from Sidebottom is typically worth a 35 or 40 disposal game from any of our other mids, except the Captain.
Seriously, playing a fit Sidebottom as a permanent forward would be nearly as stupid as playing a fit Pendlebury as a permanent half-back. |
P4S I'm never impressed with numbers (stats) and don't judge players performances on the numerical stats hence why I've often left Treloar out of the votes. Last weekend you were the only poster who gave Sidey a vote of any value. We all understand that he's your favourite player and he isn't mine but to say he's our second best midfielder is just down right wrong.
Forgetting the numbers and looking purely at what happens during the course of the game he falls behind on so many facets.
His tackling is weak
He has no speed
His disposal at times is horrendous (he's not alone there)
He doesn't have impact on the scoreboard to any great consistency
Nor does he have great assists in scoring
Nor does he have great inside 50 entries to advantage
Nor does he have any decent rebound 50'stats
He doesn't win his own ball
He is low on the 1% count
And as a leader he is not a leader by actions nor a leader vocal wise
His only consistent item he brings is his ability to run for long periods of time generally behind the actually play as he doesn't have the speed to catch the quicker players.
Forgetting all his deficiencies above my reasoning to play him more as a small forward is one of his strengths is his footy smarts around goal.
We have ample midfielders many who offer more than he does.
He was drafted as a small forward (the day he kicked 10 in the TAC final he was named on a wing started on the HFF and spent the majority of the day there rarely venturing more than 60 from goal (rude was correct)
He's smart enough to know he won't take screaming marks over packs and therefore won't contest them mew if he can be at ground level when it comes to ground. Currently Blair Elliott Faz all try to take hangers and no one is left at ground level.
Also as a leader he can direct our forward line structure and ensure our leading patterns etc are followed.
I honestly believe he's far better suited there then getting 25 in the midfield at 65%. I would be happy for him to do like Rioli and have 14 valuable ones around the forward 50 kick 2 and set up another 2 or 3 and apply pressure
We can agree to disagree |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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I dare say Sidebottoms role changes a little from one week to the next and that's the nature of the modern game for a mid field type.
Regardless of his best position on the ground, we do not have many players who would automatically get a game in every other AFL team.
Sidebottom, however, is one of them. That's good enough for me, regardless of where he positions himself on the ground. |
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Adam Treloar 3 Votes
Joined: 09 May 2017
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Most of the football commentators, Wayne Carey included regard Steele as an elite player. Personally, I love what he brings to the team and don't understand the knocks on him but then again you can't please everyone.
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People forget that our last premiership was only 2010 and rebuilds take some time. 2018 we play finals again. |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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^ Most commentators (ex players to be more precise) appreciate footballing genius when they see it. The average punter is mainly interested in possession count and brownlow votes
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Getting back to De Goey....... |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| "Getting back to De Goey", he's a good player getting better with each game. Just keep playing him and watch for his incremental improvement each game. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | | "Getting back to De Goey", he's a good player getting better with each game. Just keep playing him and watch for his incremental improvement each game. |
yep. The improvement in performance will come as he feels he no longer has to perform each week to keep a spot. Once he feels he belongs, he'll really start to grow.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Getting back to De Goey, Blair was much better than he was in the last game. So, eg, were - amongst the medium-sized players Phillips, Greenwood, Smith, Wells, Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Treloar, Elliott and Adams. Even Maynard had 4 important score involvements (though, admittedly, 3 of them were Hawthorn goals). He really needs to lift his game from being on the very fringes of selection - by the same stage of his career, Pendlebury was an obvious star. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I don't know if they were. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Can't help but feel we need to start giving de Goey far more minutes through the midfield or risk totally stalling his development as a footballer.
How we manipulate this is the hard part and may require someone like Sidebottom spending more time forward or making a hard call on a player and omitting them.
I want to see it as early as next week against Melbourne a side with a deep midfield and stacked with impressive young talent.
de Goey vs Oliver is what I want.
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