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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: Recruiting success - Better than we think. | |
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There was a LOT of criticism of Collingwood's recruiting efforts over the summer (and indeed summers past).
Interestingly, going into round 10 and looking at our best 22 from last week, it is interesting to observe the following.
- 4 of the 5 2017 trades are IN the best 22. Schade, Dunn, Wells and WHE are all valuable contributors. Mayne struggling to get a game
- the remaining 18 players in the team include 6 players brought to the club through trades - Treloar, Howe, Adams Greenwood, Crisp, and Aish.
- Of the remaining 12, no fewer than 7 were low draft picks or rookie listed players - Smith, Goldsack, Maynard, Elliot (he was effectively a pick 25), Faz, Blair and Phillips.
- Only Pendles, Sidey, DeGoey, Moore and Grundy can be truly considered high end talent that we secured through the draft!
A further examination of the list shows the following players who are of the kind that could be considered best 22 types.
- Varcoe, White, Aish and Mayne all came from trades
- Langdon, Brown, Daicos, Wills, Crocker, Cox were all late round/rookie talents.
- Scharenberg and Reid were high end talents secured in the draft.
We only really have one high end talent that it is a bust and the was Freeman and we'll never know what he could have become as his career was tragically cut short!
Where would we be without our excellent trading record. Imagine a side without Schade, Dunn, WHE, Wells, Varcoe, White, Greenwood, Crisp, Adams, Treloar, Aish and Mayne. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Location: Bendigo
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Post subject: | |
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This list was 2nd bottom on the ladder only the round before last. Hardly a ringing endorsment. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: | |
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Are you suggesting that Wells, WHE, Schade and Dunn this year, and Treloar, Howe, Adams, Aish, Crisp and Greenwood have been disappointments?
Most are playing better for us than they did at their prior club. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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Post subject: | |
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E wrote: | Are you suggesting that Wells, WHE, Schade and Dunn this year, and Treloar, Howe, Adams, Aish, Crisp and Greenwood have been disappointments?
Most are playing better for us than they did at their prior club. |
If I was to become the devil's advocate I could respond by saying that a few in that list weren't good enough to get a senior game at their old clubs, but are good enough to get a game with us. Did they improve over the pre-season or are we not as good as some of us think we are?
In terms of disappointment, we really don't know. What was the opportunity cost of recruiting them? No-one can answer that question. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Is "career tragically cut short" code for being made to go to St Kilda? |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Post subject: | |
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melliot wrote: | This list was 2nd bottom on the ladder only the round before last. Hardly a ringing endorsment. |
True.
This topic has been done before.
The problem is our lack of A graders or elites in our recruiting.
Even Treloar cost us two top 10 picks.
We have recruited a lot of "handy players" as one great Nixster wrote.
But the world is full of handy players. _________________ we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Post subject: Re: Recruiting success - Better than we think. | |
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E wrote: |
- Only Pendles, Sidey, DeGoey, Moore and Grundy can be truly considered high end talent that we secured through the draft!
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Hine so called golden touch started when he picked Pendles.
But people forgot that Pendles was rated highly in the phantom draft.
Sidey was picked in 2008 and along with Beams was the last good Hine A grade picks.
JDG and Moore have done nothing yet, and Moore was rated in the top 5 so hardly an amazing pick by Hine.
Ditto Grundy he was rated best big man by everybody in his draft year. It just happened that most other clubs wanted a non ruckman for their first pick.
Our recruiting has been reasonable but nothing out of the box. _________________ we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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Post subject: Re: Recruiting success - Better than we think. | |
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thompsoc wrote: | E wrote: |
- Only Pendles, Sidey, DeGoey, Moore and Grundy can be truly considered high end talent that we secured through the draft!
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Hine so called golden touch started when he picked Pendles.
But people forgot that Pendles was rated highly in the phantom draft.
Sidey was picked in 2008 and along with Beams was the last good Hine A grade picks.
JDG and Moore have done nothing yet, and Moore was rated in the top 5 so hardly an amazing pick by Hine.
Ditto Grundy he was rated best big man by everybody in his draft year. It just happened that most other clubs wanted a non ruckman for their first pick.
Our recruiting has been reasonable but nothing out of the box. |
Was Pendles rated highly in the phantom draft? I can't recall that, but I do remember the club being criticised for wasting a top 10 pick on an Eltham basketball player.
That sort of criticism isn't unusual though. Hawthorn were also criticised for wasting a pick on Hodge as Judd & Ball were playing well long before he was. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Post subject: | |
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This is what Hine said in 2015 about drafting Pendles.
WHILE some within the industry thought drafting Scott Pendlebury with pick No. 5 in the 2005 national draft was a “monumental mistake”, almost a decade later its proven an inspired choice.
Five All-Australian jumpers, three best-and-fairest awards and a premiership later, Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hine’s choice looks an inspired one.
“We probably took him ahead of where most boards had him,” Hine told Fox Sports News.
“It was actually my first draft and I remember driving down St Kilda Road post draft and Caroline Wilson was on the radio and she was saying something along the lines that ‘industry sources suggest Collingwood had made a monumental mistake by taking Pendlebury with pick 5’.
“I almost drove into a tree.”
Hine has watched the 27-year-old translate the qualities that saw him excel at junior level into the big league with ease.
“In that particular draft year we thought he played a lot like an indigenous player, he had so much time and so much space. You really couldn’t touch him in a phone box,” he said.
“It’s just that spatial awareness. I think the one thing about Scott is that he was a basketball player at the really high end, so just watch him every time he’s got the ball the game just stops around him.”
Hine said Pendlebury’s on field ability combined with his leadership make him one of the best players he’s seen in black and white.
“He’s certainly right up there ... He’s just so durable and he plays at a really high level week in week out ... no matter what the circumstances,” he said.
“He’s proving to be an outstanding leader ... if there was one thing that surprised me about Scott is just how great a leader he is.” _________________ we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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Post subject: | |
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thompsoc wrote: | This is what Hine said in 2015 about drafting Pendles.
WHILE some within the industry thought drafting Scott Pendlebury with pick No. 5 in the 2005 national draft was a “monumental mistake”, almost a decade later its proven an inspired choice.
Five All-Australian jumpers, three best-and-fairest awards and a premiership later, Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hine’s choice looks an inspired one.
“We probably took him ahead of where most boards had him,” Hine told Fox Sports News.
“It was actually my first draft and I remember driving down St Kilda Road post draft and Caroline Wilson was on the radio and she was saying something along the lines that ‘industry sources suggest Collingwood had made a monumental mistake by taking Pendlebury with pick 5’.
“I almost drove into a tree.”
Hine has watched the 27-year-old translate the qualities that saw him excel at junior level into the big league with ease.
“In that particular draft year we thought he played a lot like an indigenous player, he had so much time and so much space. You really couldn’t touch him in a phone box,” he said.
“It’s just that spatial awareness. I think the one thing about Scott is that he was a basketball player at the really high end, so just watch him every time he’s got the ball the game just stops around him.”
Hine said Pendlebury’s on field ability combined with his leadership make him one of the best players he’s seen in black and white.
“He’s certainly right up there ... He’s just so durable and he plays at a really high level week in week out ... no matter what the circumstances,” he said.
“He’s proving to be an outstanding leader ... if there was one thing that surprised me about Scott is just how great a leader he is.” |
That was interesting.
It also reinforced my opinion of Caroline Wilson.
The issue of the game stopping around him is something that I discussed with an opposition supporter only a couple of weeks ago. Once he is moving with the ball he is rarely caught without disposing of the ball properly. That is partially spatial awareness, but I think he is actually quicker than he appears to be. I don't know whether he has long legs in proportion to the rest of his body, but he has a loping, long striding style which gives the illusion of being slow.
I saw something similar recently in junior sport, at a reasonably high level, when a long legged kid took off with big strides and the two smaller chasers, whose legs were going much faster, appeared to be running faster, but made up no ground.
I would love to know how Pendles stacks up against others at times over 10 metres and 20 metres. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Post subject: | |
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We were also smart off loading Travis Cloke when we did.
For all those who suggested he would thrive under a 'supportive coach', I read today that he is likely to be dropped after kicking only 5 goals and taking 6 contested marks in 6 games (something like that anyway). Seems the club knew he was cooked. Good call by our club. |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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^^
Spot on.
The call on Nathan Brown was absolutely spot on.
Jack Frost cannot get a game at Brisbane, so another correct call.
Marley has been playing OK for North, but is still butchering the ball chronically, so another correct call.
Witts has been doing well for Gold Coast, but it is understandable that he wanted to leave, as he would not been playing in front of Grundy, so he would be languishing in the 2's. A win for him and for the club, as we used the picks we received for Witts to help get Daicos and Brown. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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Post subject: | |
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Is "career tragically cut short" code for being made to go to St Kilda? |
no, its code for "tearing the hamstring completely off the bone".
I thought he was pretty much washed up. am i wrong? is he getting games with them? _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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doriswilgus
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Location: the great southern land
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Post subject: Re: Recruiting success - Better than we think. | |
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thompsoc wrote: | E wrote: |
- Only Pendles, Sidey, DeGoey, Moore and Grundy can be truly considered high end talent that we secured through the draft!
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Hine so called golden touch started when he picked Pendles.
But people forgot that Pendles was rated highly in the phantom draft.
Sidey was picked in 2008 and along with Beams was the last good Hine A grade picks.
JDG and Moore have done nothing yet, and Moore was rated in the top 5 so hardly an amazing pick by Hine.
Ditto Grundy he was rated best big man by everybody in his draft year. It just happened that most other clubs wanted a non ruckman for their first pick.
Our recruiting has been reasonable but nothing out of the box. |
I agree with that.I would say that up until 2010 Hine was an above average recruiter,but since 2011 he has definitely become a sub par recruiter.The club just lacks a grade talent,particularly young talent, and it shows when we play the better sides. |
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010 Location: Lulie Street
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Post subject: | |
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You must turn the list over, so what have we missed from our notable outs traded to other clubs;
Dale Thomas - washed up. For the money, he has been a poor return.
Heretier Lumumba - washed up
Chris Dawes - washed up
Dayne Beames - still has massive up side, but on the whole chronically injured. Only played 25 times out of 53 games since he left.
Sharrrod Wellingham - been serviceable but easily replaceable
Ben Kennedy - washed up
Jackson Paine - washed up
Paul Seedsman - easily replaceable
Jon Ceglar - may have missed one here. Injured a lot, but has been good
Nathan Freeman - yet to play a senior game
Marley Williams - easily replaceable
Jarrod Witts - has upside, but would never play over Grundy
Jack Frost - limited player, back up defender at best
Nathan Brown - capable, but would have one year in him at best
Travis Cloke - he offers very little now. One more year in him at best
Heath Shaw - has been missed and has played excellently. He's over his peak, but still good.
All in all our outs besides Shaw and perhaps Ceglar, all the rest have been serviceable at best, or flops. Very little missed.
Last edited by sixpoints on Thu May 25, 2017 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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