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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Post subject: Trade Sidebottom & Fasolo | |
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The following players should be put up for trade, delisted or are on the edge:
Trade Currency:
* Fasolo: not a clutch player despite his popularity. Surely Freo would pass on a second rd pick for him. We lost a second round draft pick for Hoskin Elliott so we need to recoup another. Too many fans are seduced by his upper level performances but outside the Richmond game in 2016, when has he really performed in "clutch game winning moments" when the "heat is on"??
* Sidebottom: superfluous to our needs. With Treloar, Adams, Greenwood, Varcoe we have enough 180cm mids with flaws in their game. Steele would command a first round draft pick from a contender. 27 next year and ask yourself one thing: "is he going to get any better"? Thankyou for the service but he has become Dinky kick central in my opinion
* Ramsay: would elicit a 3rd round draft pick at best
Delisted:
* Blair: surely has to be his last year
* Sinclair: allergic to football
Playing for their careers:
* Goldsack: playing well currently
* White: last year of contract and needs to respond better than today
* J Thomas: shall need to make an impact
* Keefe: hard to see him getting a gig in 2018
* Sier: needs to get on the paddock and repay the speculative faith
* Oxley: like him and would hope he gets a run at it.
Imagine the following:
* We finish 14th and have pick 5 in the National Draft
* We secure another first round pick for Sidebottom eg. pick 10
* 2nd round pick for Fasolo eg. pick 25
* We have two 3rd round picks this season (1 for Frost trade and 1 regular)
With a draft full of key talls we could use pick 5, 10 on two excellent talls and start the "rebuilding" of our tall stocks!
PS: am sure I'll be hated for proposing the above! _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Sidebottom kicks OK when there are some goals to aim at. Why we persist in playing one of the league's best small forwards as a midfielder I don't know. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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hermie
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: melbourne
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Sidebottom is the softest player on our list,does my head in with weak tackle attempts and blokes just brush him off and kick goals,i know every team needs outside players and he is up there but as a leader sometimes you have to be the one to go and he consistently isn't the one |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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hermie wrote: | Sidebottom is the softest player on our list,does my head in with weak tackle attempts and blokes just brush him off and kick goals,i know every team needs outside players and he is up there but as a leader sometimes you have to be the one to go and he consistently isn't the one |
Correct. His limp tackling and coughing the ball up with equally limp handball yesterday cost us big time! _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Tannin wrote: | Sidebottom kicks OK when there are some goals to aim at. Why we persist in playing one of the league's best small forwards as a midfielder I don't know. |
Interesting comment. Do you have anything to back that up?
Other than his 10 goals in a TAC GF, which he kicked from the midfield, his best effort is 25 in a season at senior level.
He averages 0.7 goals per game.
fas averages 1.3
Dayne beams averages 1,0 goals per game as a midfielder.
I'm not sure why the myth persists that Sidey is a great kick in general, or a goal kicker. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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INXS I agree Faz isn't the type of player you build forward lines around. He's hot and cold in a matter of minutes. His best is very good but it's so infrequent
I hate seeing him just standing there waving his arms around instead of being on his bike
He gets to far away from goals to often and that's not were we need him
Second round pick might be on th high end
Sidey has that ability to make you cry and smile in the space of 2 possessions. I've been a harsh critic for a long time but I don't totally blame the player. He's been allowed in fact rewarded with inconsistent performances with a new long term contract on the basis of a hand full of games a year.
Long term contracts are for the top echelon of player not average players which is what he is most of the time. When he's on so he's brilliant but it's never for a whole game or every week. It's patchy brilliance coupled with rookie errors and poor basic skill errors
I agree with Tannin in part he's a small forward not a midfielder been saying that for years but he would need to show a lot more of a defensive mindset to make it to the top tier of small forwards in today's game. He's definitely not Betts but he has good game sense so should make it as a small forward.
I said when we drafted him we paid huge overs. Prior to the TAC final he was rated a mid to low second round pick by most phantom drafts and some had him in the 3rd round. We drafted him on the back of 1 very good game. The rest of his last season in the TAC was barely average for a small forward or midfielder (memory tells me he averaged high teens in possessions and less than a goal a game and not much else)
It was a mistake to use pick 11 on him he would have been available later with a second round pick. We wouldn't get anyone to part with a 1st round pick IMO unless someone was desperate for midfielders and nothing was available in the draft.
Right now we have little trade value on our list so it's either clean out the list and go to the draft or trade players out and go to the market |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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qldmagpie67 wrote: | INXS I agree Faz isn't the type of player you build forward lines around. He's hot and cold in a matter of minutes. His best is very good but it's so infrequent
I hate seeing him just standing there waving his arms around instead of being on his bike
He gets to far away from goals to often and that's not were we need him
Second round pick might be on th high end
Sidey has that ability to make you cry and smile in the space of 2 possessions. I've been a harsh critic for a long time but I don't totally blame the player. He's been allowed in fact rewarded with inconsistent performances with a new long term contract on the basis of a hand full of games a year.
Long term contracts are for the top echelon of player not average players which is what he is most of the time. When he's on so he's brilliant but it's never for a whole game or every week. It's patchy brilliance coupled with rookie errors and poor basic skill errors
I agree with Tannin in part he's a small forward not a midfielder been saying that for years but he would need to show a lot more of a defensive mindset to make it to the top tier of small forwards in today's game. He's definitely not Betts but he has good game sense so should make it as a small forward.
I said when we drafted him we paid huge overs. Prior to the TAC final he was rated a mid to low second round pick by most phantom drafts and some had him in the 3rd round. We drafted him on the back of 1 very good game. The rest of his last season in the TAC was barely average for a small forward or midfielder (memory tells me he averaged high teens in possessions and less than a goal a game and not much else)
It was a mistake to use pick 11 on him he would have been available later with a second round pick. We wouldn't get anyone to part with a 1st round pick IMO unless someone was desperate for midfielders and nothing was available in the draft.
Right now we have little trade value on our list so it's either clean out the list and go to the draft or trade players out and go to the market |
Like your considered thoughts. I don't want to be a revisionist but history suggests that Steele has been an excellent pick and player for us. If you look back on the 2008 National Draft and re-ranked it (which Champion Data and others have done) he has increased to number 3.
He has played with consistency, passion and flair plus provided some fantastic big game performances (2010 GF replay). He has "media gravitas" insofar as most scribes "gush over" his ups and ignore his downs. He would easily command a first round draft pick on the basis of:
* Age: only 26
* Consistency
* Track record of form and low injury count
* market forces: Deledio went for a first at 30 yrs of age & dud calf
* ability
Look the Pies won't put him up, but with our glut of similar paced, size and skilled players within this profile and a dearth of talls, we should be aggressive and look at it! _________________ I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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Raw Hammer
Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Location: The Gutter
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stui magpie wrote: | Tannin wrote: | Sidebottom kicks OK when there are some goals to aim at. Why we persist in playing one of the league's best small forwards as a midfielder I don't know. |
Interesting comment. Do you have anything to back that up?
Other than his 10 goals in a TAC GF, which he kicked from the midfield, his best effort is 25 in a season at senior level.
He averages 0.7 goals per game.
fas averages 1.3
Dayne beams averages 1,0 goals per game as a midfielder.
I'm not sure why the myth persists that Sidey is a great kick in general, or a goal kicker. |
Steele is a consistent goal kicker when he plays as a forward. _________________ Est. 2002 |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013 Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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I like him forward. Stuff his engine.. its a distraction. _________________ All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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hermie
Joined: 26 Apr 2003 Location: melbourne
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[quote="inxs88"][quote="hermie"]Sidebottom is the softest player on our list,does my head in with weak tackle attempts and blokes just brush him off and kick goals,i know every team needs outside players and he is up there but as a leader sometimes you have to be the one to go and he consistently isn't the one[/quote]
Correct. His limp tackling and coughing the ball up with equally limp handball yesterday cost us big time![/quote]
he plays his role perfectly and he isn't our worst user of the ball but he isn't hard enough at the ball sometimes and being a vice captain he has to put his head over it or lay a tackle |
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GreekLunatic
Joined: 22 Feb 2003 Location: doncaster vic australia
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so far people want nearly half our list traded |
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duke750
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Buderim QLD
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Keep Sidebottom as a forward (still remember how well he played in both GFs) but Fasolo is not the sort of small forward we need at this time.
Throw the kitchen sink at Tom Lynch _________________ Magpies forever.
First Colligwood game: Western Oval 1960 |
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Jpies
Joined: 09 Apr 2016
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GreekLunatic wrote: | so far people want nearly half our list traded |
This. And it's ludicrous. As disappointing as yesterday was, our close losses this year have really showed how close we are to being a very good football team.
Trading Sidebottom and Pendlebury (suggested in another thread)? Both had a slightly below par match yesterday and now people are suggesting they are traded. Pendlebury, no more should need to be said. Sidey has finished top 5 in the Copeland every year since 2012. It's absolute rubbish that there is no spot for him in our midfield- all of pendles, adams, treloar, greenwood, crisp, de goey etc. were there last year and only two managed to do better. Wells is hardly a reliable replacement (if sidey were to go), and brown/daicos are young and entirely unproven.
Obviously Blair and White are playing for their careers. Keefe and Thomas... probably they are too, but it's very early days for them yet. Let's give them a couple of months.
Sier is at no risk. Club has been fairly clear that he is basically being treated as a first year draftee this year due to his age (just turned 19 a few months back). Unless he does terribly, he's not at risk of being de-listed. |
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duke750
Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Location: Buderim QLD
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Agree that Sidebottom and Pendles are untouchable. But we should look at what type of forward line we need to win a premiership. We cannot afford to have 2 small forwards who try to take hangers over the key forwards. Keep Elliot, but jettison Fasolo for whatever we can get. _________________ Magpies forever.
First Colligwood game: Western Oval 1960 |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Raw Hammer wrote: |
Steele is a consistent goal kicker when he plays as a forward. |
When? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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