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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.
Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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You like Dylan's music and songs but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Oh wow I just googled his songs for my favourite, he has written so many! And from so long ago!, so many amazing timeless songs.
Forever young - Sons of Anarchy season 1 episode 12. Cover by the forest rangers. Just fit the scene perfectly.
http://www.soafanatic.com/2015/09/remember-sons-of-anarchy-with-audra-maes-forever-young/
Well done well deserved _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I thought Rap News summed up the whole Nobel Prize phenomenon pretty well:
https://youtu.be/7jHe5OjAm_E
Angry Norwegian with sword: "it's our prize, we give it to whoever we want to!" _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.
Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage. |
I'm shocked and disappointed you posted this here. This is a celebration thread and this is not like you xxx _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Maybe Mugwump will like it better next year when they gave Ray and Dave Davies the joint-prize in Physics? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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People born on that day have serious talent. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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think positive wrote: | Mugwump wrote: | ^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.
Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage. |
I'm shocked and disappointed you posted this here. This is a celebration thread and this is not like you xxx |
Is it? I mean, I love Dylan as much as the next person, but this still seems like an odd decision. The Nobel Prize is so politicised that I think it's fine to argue the case for or against. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ Looked like an opinion thread to me, TP. He's a great and meritorious popular songwriter, and he is probably the greatest and most original popular song lyricist of all time. I'd give him lots of Grammys. But his words, shorn of the music, are those of a bright high-school student. They are often toe-curlingly obvious and lazy. Poetry's a bit better that that. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Yeah my PC was giving me grief, so I've lost the link where a bunch of 'scholars' dissed him getting the award. What a bunch of puffed up poncey Pratts!
Some arguing it's not art? Really? Art is what moves you, and some of his songs can move you to tears. Does something have to be complex, or 'only obvious to those enlightened by the boring classical old fashion language English lit subjects in university's" to get the award? How about the good old, well no women got one arguement?
In that case keep your boring bullshit award. Dylan's songs are classic, timeless, they tell stories. And that SOA reference? Sons of anarchy is a modern day hamlet! _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Mugwump wrote: | ^ On a par with Kissinger's peace prize, the subject of Tom Lehrer's famous aside. I like Dylan's music and songs, but as a poet he has a good ear for folk music.
Still, any prize for literature awarded to Sartre and Dario Fo, but not to Auden and Nabokov and Henry James, was clearly a few pages short of a full chapter, even before this latest outrage. |
While I agree it is a bit of a stretch to have awarded Dylan the Nobel Prize for Literature, to suggest it's on par with Kissinger is using a bit of poetic license.
I would have awarded it to Spike Milligan for his poetry. _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Bob Dylan's music is definitely art, no question and often great art, at that. What's perplexing is that he sits in what most would consider a fairly distinct genre, in which words are judged less on their own merit than the way they communicate with and are aided by the music. To say it's not literature isn't to place it below the literary canon; it's to put it to the side as something that is separate but equal, roughly speaking.
In any case, Dylan's place in music history is so assured, so incomparable, that this award will not add or subtract an iota from it. So this is really more about the Nobel Prize as an institution than it is about him. Personally, I find most (if not all) of these awards to be capricious and fairly inconsequential, so I feel no sense of ownership over the prize, nor a burning desire to see it go to the right person. If it helps Dylan win a few new fans, then I guess that's a good thing. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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David wrote: | Bob Dylan's music is definitely art, no question and often great art, at that. What's perplexing is that he sits in what most would consider a fairly distinct genre, in which words are judged less on their own merit than the way they communicate with and are aided by the music. To say it's not literature isn't to place it below the literary canon; it's to put it to the side as something that is separate but equal, roughly speaking.
In any case, Dylan's place in music history is so assured, so incomparable, that this award will not add or subtract an iota from it. So this is really more about the Nobel Prize as an institution than it is about him. Personally, I find most (if not all) of these awards to be capricious and fairly inconsequential, so I feel no sense of ownership over the prize, nor a burning desire to see it go to the right person. If it helps Dylan win a few new fans, then I guess that's a good thing. |
Cheers, I like this post well said _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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David wrote: | Bob Dylan's music is definitely art, no question and often great art, at that. What's perplexing is that he sits in what most would consider a fairly distinct genre, in which words are judged less on their own merit than the way they communicate with and are aided by the music. To say it's not literature isn't to place it below the literary canon; it's to put it to the side as something that is separate but equal, roughly speaking.
In any case, Dylan's place in music history is so assured, so incomparable, that this award will not add or subtract an iota from it. So this is really more about the Nobel Prize as an institution than it is about him. Personally, I find most (if not all) of these awards to be capricious and fairly inconsequential, so I feel no sense of ownership over the prize, nor a burning desire to see it go to the right person. If it helps Dylan win a few new fans, then I guess that's a good thing. |
Indeed, that sums it pretty well, David, but there are implications of giving
Dylan the Nobel for literature.
A culture that thinks Dylan is great literature is a culture that thinks Trump should run for President. It's a culture that has forgotten the importance of standards of craft, discrimination, and expertise. It's a culture that says "if it describes how i feel, or it feels good and it's popular, that's enough". Almost nothing in Dylan reads well as literature. Take the lines quoted by P4s in the OP : it's the type of self-dramatising doggerel that brainy adolescents write across the world. Some of Dylan is better than that, but not much, and a lot of his writing - considered as literature - is worse.
I love Dylan, and I think his achievement is a great achievement. But it is not great literature, and the Nobel used to be part of how we set and maintain that standard.
Finally, it is also a waste. Dylan is already a global megastar and a plutocratically rich man. He does not need people to be turned on to his work, as you suggest. He does not need $1.2 million. There were people on that shortlist who deserved the prize more, and whose writing would have benefited from the financial security it might bring.
This prize is the excretion of a culture that ingests junk food and thinks it is haute cuisine. As folk music, Dylan is haute cuisine. As literature, he is junk food. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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