Adam Treloar
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Figures updated to last night's Footscray game - we have now lost 9 and won 3 in games where Treloar has had 18+ handballs (22 last night). He played very well and one effort to get the ball forward by scrambling around the boundary on his own in the dying moments was especially captivating. I thought that was probably his best game for Collingwood, because it was against competent opposition.
I suspect that his overuse of handball to limited effect is part of a broader problem with the team's strategy. In any event, it's something that needs to be sorted, either with the game plan generally or with his ball use. |
Interesting stats P4S but I would look at his stats a bit differently.
He is often used as the runner through the middle as link up and keep pushing forward. That would have a an effect on lopsided ratio handballs to kicks. I'm guessing that's a plan from the coaches more so than his choosing
I agree that it needs to be sorted out as it when it works looks great but when it fails we get burnt the other way as our midfield have all moved forward of the ball |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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It's so hard to know what to make of many stats - do we lose because Treloar is over-handballing, or is the whole team over-handballing because we are under pressure and not enough kicking targets are presenting in games where we get beaten ? Many of our lost games were those where we had injuries and AT was being tagged because there were only a few players to shut down, and being tagged makes it harder to get kicks. I just don't know how to interpret that stat.
That said, I thought Treloar played his best ever game for us by Friday. His kicking looked better (he actually nailed a running shot) and he frequently used his pace to create space and opportunities for us. And yes, that section around the boundary in the last two minutes was the kind of pure individual class than can make the difference between winning and losing. That is what an A-grader does. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Another update to the end of the GCS game - that's now 9 losses and 4 wins when Treloar has 18+ handballs (20 last night).
I will need to watch again to understand better why the handball numbers were so high on a night when the opposition applied virtually no pressure in the defensive midfield - but he did seem to get clear reasonably often, so perhaps there was a little more positive, "give and go" type handball. Anyway, whatever the reason, he had just under 10% of the team's total handballs but only a little over 7% of the team's total kicks.
Given that his goal-kicking efficiency was 16.7% (that is, 1.4 and one OOTF from 6 shots), he obviously needs to improve his disposal by foot dramatically. Still, this is what the off-season's for, so, hopefully, he'll come back next year handballing less, hitting more targets by foot and snaffling more goals. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Another update to the end of the GCS game - that's now 9 losses and 4 wins when Treloar has 18+ handballs (20 last night).
I will need to watch again to understand better why the handball numbers were so high on a night when the opposition applied virtually no pressure in the defensive midfield - but he did seem to get clear reasonably often, so perhaps there was a little more positive, "give and go" type handball. Anyway, whatever the reason, he had just under 10% of the team's total handballs but only a little over 7% of the team's total kicks.
Given that his goal-kicking efficiency was 16.7% (that is, 1.4 and one OOTF from 6 shots), he obviously needs to improve his disposal by foot dramatically. Still, this is what the off-season's for, so, hopefully, he'll come back next year handballing less, hitting more targets by foot and snaffling more goals. |
I watched a lot closer last night and he seemed to be the link man in the run and carry part of our game. He received several handballs then dished out handballs to players and kept running forward which resulted in him having 6 shots on goals (for a very poor return) I think his role will be more the link man hence his handball rate will always be higher. I would rather see the ball being kicked forward by Pendles Varcoe yes and Sidey (as long he aims it longer than 10m as I think the longer he goes to pass it the best he kicks it) even DeGoey Maynard Greenwood etc can play as the handball receivers then feed it out to him running again. His strong through the thighs and upper body to shrug a tackle as well as being a decent pace.
Your 100% right though he needs to kick it way better next season I'm hoping his groin has hampered his kicking because I would hate to think this is as good as he can kick |
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Beast
Joined: 26 Oct 2011
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Don't get me wrong, he's been a great pick up but his possessions tallies to influence ratio reminds me of Rockliff's. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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His run and carry, give-and-go through the midfield (often right through the middle of the ground) last night was spectacular and one of the key differentiating factors, I thought. His kicking is impaired, I think, by the sheer energy he has alrady used up by the time he disposes of it, as he does a lot of multiple handballs as we transition through the middle of the ground.
This seems to be an emerging game plan which is actually different to most of the other sides : running the ball through the middle with fast handball, using Treloar (especially Treloar), Pendlebury, Sinclair, Maynard and Crisp and Williams. Time will tell whether it can work (and at the moment our execution of it is about 50/50). When it works it looks good and it can be very damaging, but when it comes unstuck it looks bad. Nevertheless, these last few weeks it has become a major theme. It is an innovation, I think, and if we can start to pull it off more often that not, it might become a weapon. Whether it'll make for prettier football I doubt. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Bendigo
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Another update to the end of the GCS game - that's now 9 losses and 4 wins when Treloar has 18+ handballs (20 last night).
I will need to watch again to understand better why the handball numbers were so high on a night when the opposition applied virtually no pressure in the defensive midfield - but he did seem to get clear reasonably often, so perhaps there was a little more positive, "give and go" type handball. Anyway, whatever the reason, he had just under 10% of the team's total handballs but only a little over 7% of the team's total kicks.
Given that his goal-kicking efficiency was 16.7% (that is, 1.4 and one OOTF from 6 shots), he obviously needs to improve his disposal by foot dramatically. Still, this is what the off-season's for, so, hopefully, he'll come back next year handballing less, hitting more targets by foot and snaffling more goals. |
If you are think of doing more research can you factor in metres gained? I'd hazard a guess that he gains more metres in a wins than the loss. Saturday for example there was a lot of offensive handballing, in the losses I'd venture a lot more of the handballs are forced out the back of congestion. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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That's a good point, jc. Those figures used to be published in the Sun, along with the quarter by quarter stats but I don't subscribe. Is there any site that has those sorts of things (short of subscribing to Champion Data)? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Mugwump wrote: | His run and carry, give-and-go through the midfield (often right through the middle of the ground) last night was spectacular and one of the key differentiating factors, I thought. His kicking is impaired, I think, by the sheer energy he has alrady used up by the time he disposes of it, as he does a lot of multiple handballs as we transition through the middle of the ground.
This seems to be an emerging game plan which is actually different to most of the other sides : running the ball through the middle with fast handball, using Treloar (especially Treloar), Pendlebury, Sinclair, Maynard and Crisp and Williams. Time will tell whether it can work (and at the moment our execution of it is about 50/50). When it works it looks good and it can be very damaging, but when it comes unstuck it looks bad. Nevertheless, these last few weeks it has become a major theme. It is an innovation, I think, and if we can start to pull it off more often that not, it might become a weapon. Whether it'll make for prettier football I doubt. |
I think we've been working on the run and carry through the midfield all season, including in the NAB cup. I'd go as far as to say most of our wins this year have been when we've done that well _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Bendigo
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Pies4shaw wrote: | That's a good point, jc. Those figures used to be published in the Sun, along with the quarter by quarter stats but I don't subscribe. Is there any site that has those sorts of things (short of subscribing to Champion Data)? |
Sorry, can't help you, was hoping you might already have access. |
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