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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Sounds like the Duncan Storrar thing all over again people eagerly trying to discredit Q&A questioners in the misguided hope that it will somehow render what they said irrelevant. Fact is, even if he did say that or whether that's what he thinks, if he's still being targeted in public simply because of his appearance (as we know many Muslims are) then this meme hasn't solved that problem one bit. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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What does the Duncan Storrar thing all over people eagerly trying to discredit [he or she]QA[he or she] questioners in the misguided hope that it will render what they said irrelevant sound like? |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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stui magpie wrote: | Lets play devils advocate mathematically for a second. A thought experiment.
Lets not consider Muslims from countries that have no major terrorism issues and say that potentially 1% of muslims from the middle east are either terrorist, terrorist sympathisers or to some degree radicalised, which ignores the capacity to become radicalised.
We allow 20,000 Muslims from the middle east to immigrate to Australia.
Without serious screening, there's 200 potential terrorists we just let in.
Lets say based on track record, each terrorist would on average be responsible for 10 deaths, that's 2000 Australians potentially dead and probably double that injured.
Is that an acceptable level of risk?
For comparison, the national road toll for 2015 was 1209 deaths. |
Let's hope that our immigration department isn't using such loopy maths.
First of all, we do have screening processes. So, even if 1% of Muslims in Iraq are involved in terrorist organisations or harbour similar ambitions (and that percentage is probably way too high), it's pretty obvious that a far, far smaller percentage of the Iraqi Muslims who make it into Australia are going to have terrorist inclinations. And even of that tiny percentage, there will surely be a substantial number that will a) see the benefits of committing attacks in Australia to be far outweighed by the costs; b) get caught before they manage to do something or c) change their ways.
So, the figure you're looking for here is x% of x% of x% of x number of immigrants, resulting in a possible figure of 0 Aussie deaths (or, if disaster strikes, more than 0).
Obviously, even just one terrorist attack on Australian soil is horrific. But we have to remember that, in any given immigrant population, x number of people will hit and kill someone while drink driving, x number will king hit someone outside a pub, and x number will assault their partners. And if you think that's an argument for less immigration, you've totally missed the point, because we could say exactly the same for any given population, including our own current non-migrant population.
We expect our governments to do what they can to keep us safe from harm. But violence can never be wholly eradicated, and shutting the gate on immigrants, or certain types of immigrants, has no effect on that whatsoever. As long as human beings exist in Australia, there will be some risk, however small, of a terrorist attack occurring. The right approach, therefore, is to try to do our best to prevent that from taking place, rather than putting our faith in some reheated White Australia Policy in the misguided hope that keeping the foreigners out will make us safer. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Bombshell:
".....Elomar, as it turns out, is on record on his Facebook page of doing precisely what he accused was being done to him referring to people as pigs on account of their religion.
In November 2014, a comment was posted on Elomars Facebook page in Arabic referring to Jews as pigs. The comment also called on God to curse the Jews. The comment is reproduced below:
May Allah curse the Jews pigs
"Oh God you jews. The victory of truth the religion of Islam"
The appearance of the above comment on Elomars Facebook page was exposed on Twitter on July 20 by Basima Faysal, a courageous Australian Muslim woman, who has lifted the lid on extremist Muslims on social media. Following Faysals exposure, the Jews pigs comment on Elomars Facebook page disappeared.
Will the ABC now do the right thing and share the findings of Faysals research with the 1 million viewers of Q & A? Dont hold your breath".
http://www.jwire.com.au/muslim-decried-hansons-anti-islam-views-q-reference-jews-pigs-facebook/
That's a game changer.
Muslim anti-semitism has barely been explored / investigated.
Then again he was outed by a courageous muslim woman. _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Consider that if he holds those views about Jews, it's unlikely that he holds more enlightened views about females. Those things tend to come in a bundle as Islamic core beliefs don't they? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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David wrote: | stui magpie wrote: | Lets play devils advocate mathematically for a second. A thought experiment.
Lets not consider Muslims from countries that have no major terrorism issues and say that potentially 1% of muslims from the middle east are either terrorist, terrorist sympathisers or to some degree radicalised, which ignores the capacity to become radicalised.
We allow 20,000 Muslims from the middle east to immigrate to Australia.
Without serious screening, there's 200 potential terrorists we just let in.
Lets say based on track record, each terrorist would on average be responsible for 10 deaths, that's 2000 Australians potentially dead and probably double that injured.
Is that an acceptable level of risk?
For comparison, the national road toll for 2015 was 1209 deaths. |
Let's hope that our immigration department isn't using such loopy maths.
First of all, we do have screening processes. So, even if 1% of Muslims in Iraq are involved in terrorist organisations or harbour similar ambitions (and that percentage is probably way too high), it's pretty obvious that a far, far smaller percentage of the Iraqi Muslims who make it into Australia are going to have terrorist inclinations. And even of that tiny percentage, there will surely be a substantial number that will a) see the benefits of committing attacks in Australia to be far outweighed by the costs; b) get caught before they manage to do something or c) change their ways.
So, the figure you're looking for here is x% of x% of x% of x number of immigrants, resulting in a possible figure of 0 Aussie deaths (or, if disaster strikes, more than 0).
Obviously, even just one terrorist attack on Australian soil is horrific. But we have to remember that, in any given immigrant population, x number of people will hit and kill someone while drink driving, x number will king hit someone outside a pub, and x number will assault their partners. And if you think that's an argument for less immigration, you've totally missed the point, because we could say exactly the same for any given population, including our own current non-migrant population.
We expect our governments to do what they can to keep us safe from harm. But violence can never be wholly eradicated, and shutting the gate on immigrants, or certain types of immigrants, has no effect on that whatsoever. As long as human beings exist in Australia, there will be some risk, however small, of a terrorist attack occurring. The right approach, therefore, is to try to do our best to prevent that from taking place, rather than putting our faith in some reheated White Australia Policy in the misguided hope that keeping the foreigners out will make us safer. |
And that risk increases every time you bring someone into a country who is a potential terrorist.
The question you're avoiding is, what is an acceptable level of risk in your mind?
2 deaths? 20? 200? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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No it doesn't. In theory, the risk increases every time our population grows in any way, but that's not an argument against someone having more children. In reality, this hypothetical is nonsensical because this stuff doesn't exist within a vacuum. If you read my post again, I already answered your question risk is not significantly mitigated by lowering the immigration intake, it's mitigated by finding more effective means of preventing terrorism (and drink driving deaths, and king hits, and murders by firearm). _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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regan is true fullback
Joined: 27 Dec 2002 Location: Granville. nsw
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Quote: | George Christensen retracts 'radical Islamists' claim over Merrylands incident
MP posted on Facebook after early reporting of a terror attack, saying: I wonder how quickly some idiot is going to inanely say this has nothing to do with Islam
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Quote: | NSW Police said a man drove at speed into the car park at Merrylands police station in western Sydney on Thursday night, hitting a roller door. | Guardian 22.7.16
Anyone who knows anything about the way people drive around here would know exactly what happened...
Of course driving in a manner dangerous to the public is a fundamental right, like smoking wherever you like, or discharging a firearm... |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Mountains Magpie
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Somewhere between now and then
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Ratbags maybe but I can't see where the article states these blokes as muslims.
MM _________________ Spiral progress, unstoppable,
exhausted sources replaced by perversion |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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what a bunch of dickheads
hope they have to pay for the diversion, they should also compensate the other passengers. fuckheads _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Mountains Magpie wrote: |
Ratbags maybe but I can't see where the article states these blokes as muslims.
MM |
You're being too literal. Should have put a in but I didn't think it was necessary _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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David wrote: | No it doesn't. In theory, the risk increases every time our population grows in any way, but that's not an argument against someone having more children. In reality, this hypothetical is nonsensical because this stuff doesn't exist within a vacuum. If you read my post again, I already answered your question risk is not significantly mitigated by lowering the immigration intake, it's mitigated by finding more effective means of preventing terrorism (and drink driving deaths, and king hits, and murders by firearm). |
Modern day terrorists are overwhelmingly Muslim. Bringing in more muslims from trouble spots increases the risk of terrorism. Have you not learned anything from Europe?
BTW, I'm not advocating for a ban, just trying to justify why it's not simply a racist or xenophobic reaction from people. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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How many terrorist attacks in Europe have been caused by recent arrivals? My impression was that most of them were nationals. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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