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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Pies4shaw wrote: | It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.
These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.
Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.
The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers). |
Great post. Especially re the truckies; a truck has so much potential to take out so many people in one hit, like the one that hit the train a few years ago did. Work cover is a great thing, too many shonky bosses would take short cuts for the mighty dollar.
Our solar gets fitted in a couple of weeks, I wonder if they use fall protection. A young worker fell off my sister in laws roof when hers was fitted, luckily he landed on the pegola, still broke a couple of bones though, ankle I think. And the company had to pay the damage to the pegola. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget _________________ I am Da Man |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Dave The Man wrote: | Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget |
How do you work that out Dave?
NAB says....
What does the Budget mean for Individuals?
Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578 _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Skids wrote: | Dave The Man wrote: | Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget |
How do you work that out Dave?
NAB says....
What does the Budget mean for Individuals?
Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578 |
What about People on the Pension? _________________ I am Da Man |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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think positive wrote: | Pies4shaw wrote: | It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.
These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.
Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.
The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers). |
Great post. Especially re the truckies; a truck has so much potential to take out so many people in one hit, like the one that hit the train a few years ago did. Work cover is a great thing, too many shonky bosses would take short cuts for the mighty dollar.
Our solar gets fitted in a couple of weeks, I wonder if they use fall protection. A young worker fell off my sister in laws roof when hers was fitted, luckily he landed on the pegola, still broke a couple of bones though, ankle I think. And the company had to pay the damage to the pegola. |
My cousin is a truckie, words for a family business and him and his mates hate the rem tribunal as they believe it will force the smaller operators out of business and they'll be left having to work for one of the big companies who (in their words) treat the drivers like shit.
Worksafe is a good thing, safer working practices across dangerous industries definitely are. Unfortunately the construction unions in particular undermine all the good work of unions in the past who put OH&S on the agenda, by using OH&S as a smoke screen for industrial tactics. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Dave The Man wrote: | Skids wrote: | Dave The Man wrote: | Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget |
How do you work that out Dave?
NAB says....
What does the Budget mean for Individuals?
Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578 |
What about People on the Pension? |
What about them? They're still getting them aren't they?
So they're going to put more effort into helping people get work and chasing the con artists off the disability pension, that should be a good thing _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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stui magpie wrote: | Dave The Man wrote: | Skids wrote: | Dave The Man wrote: | Lib's Shit on the Poor and Needy yet again in the Budget |
How do you work that out Dave?
NAB says....
What does the Budget mean for Individuals?
Treasurer Scott Morrison has handed down his first Federal Budget – the Coalition Government’s third. The winners are low and middle income earners, unemployed youth and small business, and there are significant changes to superannuation.
http://business.nab.com.au/federal-budget/?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578?ps_kwcid=43700011010316578 |
What about People on the Pension? |
What about them? They're still getting them aren't they?
So they're going to put more effort into helping people get work and chasing the con artists off the disability pension, that should be a good thing |
It is good that Young People getting Help getting a Job and Getting the Con's off the Pension.
But I think people who are Legitimately on it should get some more money coming from these Measures as there is barley enough to live on _________________ I am Da Man |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I suppose it depends. You live at home so I assume you don't get rent assistance which someone living independently would get. I don't know a lot about what other things might be available but it's not a lot of money. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Being on government assistance, whether as a parent, student, carer or unemployed (I've been all of those at one time or another) is certainly not a financially pleasant place to be and in most cases it's not meant to be. When you can't work (illness, caring, parenting), it's enough to live on and enjoy a few small comforts. When it's because you're looking for work it's enough to survive on and that's all it should be. Making it enticing to stay on welfare is what creates the welfare trap and intergenerational dependency. I've seen studies that show a huge percentage of welfare recipients manage to find work when payments are about to be cut off (most countries place a time limit on assistance).
Personally, I think the biggest barrier to getting people back to work is the fact they haven't been. Whenever I've been employed I've found it incredibly easy to find and move into another job. When I've been out of work for a while it's a bit harder, but I've still never had an issue when I've been willing to work shitty jobs or shitty hours. It's only things like needing to pick up and drop off my daughter and look after her that has narrowed my pool of available work. Even then, I've managed to find something within a couple of months (now going back to Uni to be a scummy arts student anyway). This Government program may get around that barrier by putting someone in the workforce, keeping a schedule and networking. Of course there'll be idiot bosses who take advantage but I can see the chance for a net benefit. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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^ I actually agree with a great deal of that. I do think government assistance could be a little higher than it is, but then so should the minimum wage so that there's more incentive to work.
In principle, unemployment benefits should be enough to get by on, not enough to live totally comfortably on, otherwise I agree that there'll be a lot less incentive to find work. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Post subject: | |
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stui magpie wrote: | think positive wrote: | Pies4shaw wrote: | It's a no-brainer that minimum rates should be fixed. If people are being pushed beyond the edge of safe driving by the financial pressures on them (and that's essentially the logic behind the remuneration orders), they need to find themselves another industry or job.
These are very large, very dangerous machines. In compromised hands, they are like weapons. The cost of participating in such an industry must necessarily include the cost of keeping it safe.
Really, it's quite expensive to put safety guards on machines, too. And to require that the guy who does your roof erect scaffolding before he works up there. But these are basic requirements of a civilized society. They ought not be treated as politically divisive matters.
The financial "logic" of an industry like this is frequently non-existent, too. Once, a few years back, my then firm acted for a vehicle manufacturer defending a claim for breach of contract by the liquidator of a long-haul trucking company. Essentially, the claim was that the manufacturer's refusal to supply vehicles that it had contracted to supply had sent the trucking company broke. As it happened, the defence was, in substance, that refusing to supply the trucks did send the company broke but just more quickly than it was otherwise going to happen and, in the circumstances, going broke quickly was cheaper than going broke slowly. Thus, there was a breach of contract but the breach saved the company money. In a proper, viable industry, such a defence would be inconceivable. There's a message in that (and, no, the message isn't about devious lawyers). |
Great post. Especially re the truckies; a truck has so much potential to take out so many people in one hit, like the one that hit the train a few years ago did. Work cover is a great thing, too many shonky bosses would take short cuts for the mighty dollar.
Our solar gets fitted in a couple of weeks, I wonder if they use fall protection. A young worker fell off my sister in laws roof when hers was fitted, luckily he landed on the pegola, still broke a couple of bones though, ankle I think. And the company had to pay the damage to the pegola. |
My cousin is a truckie, words for a family business and him and his mates hate the rem tribunal as they believe it will force the smaller operators out of business and they'll be left having to work for one of the big companies who (in their words) treat the drivers like shit.
Worksafe is a good thing, safer working practices across dangerous industries definitely are. Unfortunately the construction unions in particular undermine all the good work of unions in the past who put OH&S on the agenda, by using OH&S as a smoke screen for industrial tactics. |
Totally agree, not sure if it was here or elsewhere but I thought I said when I worked at Mercedes Benz trucks we did a lot of big fleets and it's amazing how many or their trucks came in for a service after the mandatory 100klm speed limiters were fitted and they had been tampered with. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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7 Eleven bosses are happy. From July 2017 they can now hire slaves um I mean interns at $4 an hour for 12 weeks at a time. Get $1000 up front for each one. That should help them recoup the fines and back pay they have had to forked out. |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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Turdbull is the gift that keeps on giving. Let's keep rubbing the peasants noses in the pooh. |
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5150
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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I will be voting Liberal.
Bill Shortens head shits me and I hate the unions. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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^ I feel much the same about Shorten and his dodgy mates but I'll be voting Green and giving Labor a strong second preference. In the immortal words of the Daily Telegraph, it's time to Kick This Mob Out. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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