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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | People who wish to donate should then do so as adults. The government has no business compelling money by force from all taxpayers to head off some who are lax with their own money. |
I don't quite understand what you're saying there, Mugwump. Are you arguing against, say, our taxes (which of course are taken from us involuntarily) funding cancer research and foreign aid? I don't see a fundamental difference between that and most charitable causes. |
I think it is very different. If you publish audited accounts of charities, and donations are voluntary, then funding a charity watchdog is completely different to funding the police force or the prevention and cure of serious disease.
Crime and illness are not voluntary (or at least not in the same way), and the police force and universal health care are a form of pooled risk, or social insurance against potentially catastrophic harms. Donations to charity are quite different - they are a voluntary act, generally involving minor amounts of money, and if you donate to a fraudulent, non-transparent charity without knowing something about it, then more fool you. There are fraud laws to cover misrepresentation, a free press always interested in a story, and i think that is capable of doing the job as well as it needs to be done.
My post simply reflects my long-held aversion to the fantasy that every worldly inconvenience should be sterilised by another department, rather than responsible adults acting their age. Create enough bureaucracies, and you achieve far less than you would with the same money spent where it was really necessary or very beneficial such as diabetes research, or more teachers, or something where the good sense of the public cannot do the job.
Foreign aid is another category - it's either charity by government on our behalf (often for the very good reason that it needs to be made at scale and quickly), or it's money spent in buying alliance or achieving geostrategic ends.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It seems a pretty arbitrary distinction to me, to be honest.
What do you think about tax-deductible charitable donations? In a roundabout way, isn't the government basically funding the causes we choose to support?
I don't think the wellbeing of others should depend on the caprices of human generosity. I tend to take the approach that any cause genuinely worth donating to should be involuntarily taxpayer-funded, with voluntary donations left for niche concerns.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | It seems a pretty arbitrary distinction to me, to be honest.
What do you think about tax-deductible charitable donations? In a roundabout way, isn't the government basically funding the causes we choose to support?
I don't think the wellbeing of others should depend on the caprices of human generosity. I tend to take the approach that any cause worth donating to should be involuntarily taxpayer-funded, with voluntary donations left for niche concerns. |
Indeed, I think tax deductibility of charitable donations makes little sense. Buy a table that someone has made, and you pay VAT. Fund the overheads of the charitable sector (typically 50c in the dollar or more) and the government pays nearly half. I have no problem with someone donating to charity, but I do not think that you and I should be making a donation via the Inland Revenue when they do so.
I have no problem with government spending, which is clearly essential to a civilised society. I have a problem with government overreach, however. Government spending is good spending when it procures a genuine positive externality, or pools serious risk at least cost, or prevents free-riding. I just don't think this is such a case. You could make the argument that a few fraudulent charities will cause less to be given overall, and thus the charities regulator brings a social good - but I think it's unlikely, and I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. In a sense you and I are in agreement.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| David wrote: | | I tend to take the approach that any cause genuinely worth donating to should be involuntarily taxpayer-funded, with voluntary donations left for niche concerns. |
And who decides what is a cause genuinely worth donating to?
Fairly certain my definition of genuine worth would be poles apart from yours!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Morrigu wrote: | | David wrote: | | I tend to take the approach that any cause genuinely worth donating to should be involuntarily taxpayer-funded, with voluntary donations left for niche concerns. |
And who decides what is a cause genuinely worth donating to?
Fairly certain my definition of genuine worth would be poles apart from yours! |
Parliament, I guess. Obviously I'm not proposing a Davidocracy. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Morrigu wrote: | | David wrote: | | I tend to take the approach that any cause genuinely worth donating to should be involuntarily taxpayer-funded, with voluntary donations left for niche concerns. |
And who decides what is a cause genuinely worth donating to?
Fairly certain my definition of genuine worth would be poles apart from yours! |
The "watt price tully foundation" is more than happy to receive your kind donation. We at the institute look forward to making blind puppies see again, deaf cats hear again & Minke whales learn Japanese for "lets get the f*ck outta here"
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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It's not bloody hard. We have had clear, non-controversial guidelines for what constitutes a "charity" pretty much forever. These are laid down in law and seldom cause even the slightest problem. (Perhaps because we have always had a small government-appointed body which administers charities and keeps things honest.)
Anyone with a worthwhile purpose (as defined in law, and pretty much anything worthwhile I can think of is covered) and a suitable organisation with appropriate administrative structures can register.
https://www.ato.gov.au/Non-profit/getting-started/endorsement/deductible-gift-recipient-%28dgr%29-endorsement/types-of-dgrs/
The only major problems with this longstanding arrangement, which has worked perfectly well for decades, are recent, and both are directly attributable to the corrosive extreme right wing of the new Abbott-Turnbull government. First, they wanted to cripple all environmental charities by carving hunks out of the law; second they mindlessly abolished the regulatory authority in one huge bill with 50-odd different purposes that they snuck through parliament without discussion and without even giving members enough time to read the legislation. Now there is no supervision and frauds like the one we are discussing were suddenly made much easier.
This is just another small example of the horribly corrosive Abbott-Credlin-Turnbull government in action. It's not just the big and stupid or greedy things they are doing wrong, it's the avalanche of small, mean, and subtle changes they have inflicted on this country, each one nastier and more corrosive than the last.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Interesting I heard Eddie on the radio this morning saying how everything is legit with the Shane Warne Foundation. He's on the board, I believe.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Makes you seriously question whether Eddie should be allowed to remain on the Collingwood board.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Morrigu wrote: | | David wrote: | | I tend to take the approach that any cause genuinely worth donating to should be involuntarily taxpayer-funded, with voluntary donations left for niche concerns. |
And who decides what is a cause genuinely worth donating to?
Fairly certain my definition of genuine worth would be poles apart from yours! |
The "watt price tully foundation" is more than happy to receive your kind donation. We at the institute look forward to making blind puppies see again, deaf cats hear again & Minke whales learn Japanese for "lets get the f*ck outta here" |
Oh sorry WPT I have my own Morrigu for Moggies foundation and a subsidiary Morigu for everything animals except humans foundation - got no cash left for you 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I've thought of starting a foundation, The Chewy Magpie Foundation. I promise that a minimum 10% of all donations received will be declared and 10% of those will go to help the targeted group.
I just need to come up with a good cause that will attract sufficient suckers, ehhhh I mean donators.
Kids and Cancer are always good ones but the market is pretty much saturated.
My early ideas, "Handguns for the homeless" and providing education sessions to aspiring hookers on how to do the perfect blowjob failed the AB testing. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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^ you could set up cooking classes for cannibals so that what they prepare isn't chewy Highlighting the abundance of fresh produce available!!
I would donate to that financially and could also offer up some potentially tasty cuts for students to test their culinary skills on!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Wonder if I could combine the cooking for Cannibals with the blow job classes.
Has some potential.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Anyway.
| Quote: | THE Shane Warne Foundation has announced a new fundraising direction to cut costs and boost donations.
The foundations full board unveiled the overhaul, after the Herald Sun revealed the spin legend was unhappy about its cost-donation ratio.
The foundation will in future hold just one huge event each year, instead of four or five fundraisers.
It will no longer operate its Necessitous Circumstances Fund and will instead donate a lump sum to a childrens charity each year saving on significant administration and compliance costs.
In an impassioned defence of his foundation, Warne said: All weve ever done is try to make a difference to children, we are proud of what weve been able to achieve.
Weve given away $3.6 million and weve got $400,000 in the bank plus our next event, thatll be over $4 million we will give away. |
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/new-fundraising-direction-for-shane-warne-foundation/news-story/642abbdd8d9b9e48aa5060e59b366efe
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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