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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Have you ever had the time or data to weigh all that up but let us say that the numbers were adjusted according to current population size ? |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Wow! You call that laughably flawed "logic" an argument? If all those other countries were willing to do what you blithely assume they will do, they would already be doing it and we wouldn't have 20 million refugees in the first place.
If you were to translate your bizarre "logic" onto the you'd say "just imagine we replaced Toovey with a player who could kick four goals every game. Gosh, considering that we have 22 players on the ground, that means we'd average 88 goals a match!" Absurd. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Perhaps I'm getting a little ahead of myself here, but you'll recall that I wrote a few posts back about taking our foot off asylum seekers' throats for a moment and looking for a regional solution. Some kind of UN-initiated global treaty could be one such solution, but, as I already wrote, there's sadly no chance of it happening in the near future. That doesn't make it impossible; it's just a question of political will. International humanitarian treaties have been signed before and they will be signed again.
Now, what of your absurd claim that a more humane refugee processing policy in Australia is going to lead to every refugee in the world coming here? _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Maybe, just maybe, the smart thing to do would be to see what can be done to prevent people becoming refugees in the first place, rather than just trying to ship 20 million people all over the globe.
Solve the refugee crisis by relocating everyone.................without fixing the root cause more refugees just keep coming. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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How would you fix the root cause? You're essentially talking about stopping all warfare and natural disasters. I'm all for measures that make the world a safer place Obama's deal with Iran, for instance but I don't see how doing that gets in the way of trying to solve current refugee crises, or vice versa.
If anything, fewer refugees in impoverished countries actually reduces economic pressure on those host countries, which may well in turn reduce geopolitical aggression. So it's a win-win. The question is, how much do you (and the rest of us) want that, and how much are we willing to sacrifice for it? _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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David wrote: | Now, what of your absurd claim that a more humane refugee processing policy in Australia is going to lead to every refugee in the world coming here? |
Ahem. You were the one who said - and I quote - "the problem is that we're still dealing with quotas". You were the one who wanted to accept immigrants without limit. Not me mate.
If you really did want to have no quota at all as you have stated, and if those 20 million refugees are - as the UNHCR states and I'm sure that you accept - genuine refugees in desperate straits with nowhere to go, people in fear for their lives, which of them wouldn't come to Australia? Who amongst them would be so stupid as to go somewhere safe, and why would they make that choice? _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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David wrote: | How would you fix the root cause? You're essentially talking about stopping all warfare and natural disasters. I'm all for measures that make the world a safer place Obama's deal with Iran, for instance but I don't see how doing that gets in the way of trying to solve current refugee crises, or vice versa.
If anything, fewer refugees in impoverished countries actually reduces economic pressure on those host countries, which may well in turn reduce geopolitical aggression. So it's a win-win. The question is, how much do you (and the rest of us) want that, and how much are we willing to sacrifice for it? |
No one solution. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Tannin wrote: | David wrote: | Now, what of your absurd claim that a more humane refugee processing policy in Australia is going to lead to every refugee in the world coming here? |
Ahem. You were the one who said - and I quote - "the problem is that we're still dealing with quotas". You were the one who wanted to accept immigrants without limit. Not me mate.
If you really did want to have no quota at all as you have stated, and if those 20 million refugees are - as the UNHCR states and I'm sure that you accept - genuine refugees in desperate straits with nowhere to go, people in fear for their lives, which of them wouldn't come to Australia? Who amongst them would be so stupid as to go somewhere safe, and why would they make that choice? |
The ones who want to go to the UK, or Germany, or Canada, or Sweden, or Chile. Or, as I mentioned, a local non-OECD country with shared language or culture. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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I'm glad the ALP had a debate about the issue and came to the decision it did.
Firstly because here at last is a party talking about issues and letting the public in on the discussion.
(it's a refreshing change from the how the other 2 go about policy decisions).
2ndly because in the scheme of things it's far more important and we can now back to talking about real questions like how are we going to tackle climate change, is COAL Australia's ONLY viable option going into the the second decade of the 21 century, do we want to kiss goodbye to the Aussie dream of owning your home and sell it to a government subsidised nuevo rich Squattocracy etc etc etc?
3. By raising the quota of refugee intakes less people will be in detention and we get a better say on who we actually let in to the country.
4. Shorten proved he is a man that can admit when he got it wrong!
As far as I can see it's a win win win win decision and I applaud it! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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stui magpie wrote: | Maybe, just maybe, the smart thing to do would be to see what can be done to prevent people becoming refugees in the first place, rather than just trying to ship 20 million people all over the globe.
Solve the refugee crisis by relocating everyone.................without fixing the root cause more refugees just keep coming. |
Yes, but I get the Miss World title because I want World Peace _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Actually, if we get rid of Arabs, Europeans, Asians, Africans, Americans, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Blacks, Whites, Coloureds, & Rastafarians, Right Wingers, Left Wingers, The Rich, The Poor, Drinkers & Non drinkers we could solve this problem _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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David wrote: | Tannin wrote: | David wrote: | Now, what of your absurd claim that a more humane refugee processing policy in Australia is going to lead to every refugee in the world coming here? |
Ahem. You were the one who said - and I quote - "the problem is that we're still dealing with quotas". You were the one who wanted to accept immigrants without limit. Not me mate.
If you really did want to have no quota at all as you have stated, and if those 20 million refugees are - as the UNHCR states and I'm sure that you accept - genuine refugees in desperate straits with nowhere to go, people in fear for their lives, which of them wouldn't come to Australia? Who amongst them would be so stupid as to go somewhere safe, and why would they make that choice? |
The ones who want to go to the UK, or Germany, or Canada, or Sweden, or Chile. Or, as I mentioned, a local non-OECD country with shared language or culture. |
Yer right. If they (a) want to go there, and (b) are allowed to go there, why aren't they there already?
Dur... _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006 Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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watt price tully wrote: | Actually, if we get rid of Arabs, Europeans, Asians, Africans, Americans, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Blacks, Whites, Coloureds, & Rastafarians, Right Wingers, Left Wingers, The Rich, The Poor, Drinkers & Non drinkers we could solve this problem |
OK. But could we just get rid of Joe Hockey instead? I'd call that a pretty fair swap. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Tannin wrote: | David wrote: | Tannin wrote: | David wrote: | Now, what of your absurd claim that a more humane refugee processing policy in Australia is going to lead to every refugee in the world coming here? |
Ahem. You were the one who said - and I quote - "the problem is that we're still dealing with quotas". You were the one who wanted to accept immigrants without limit. Not me mate.
If you really did want to have no quota at all as you have stated, and if those 20 million refugees are - as the UNHCR states and I'm sure that you accept - genuine refugees in desperate straits with nowhere to go, people in fear for their lives, which of them wouldn't come to Australia? Who amongst them would be so stupid as to go somewhere safe, and why would they make that choice? |
The ones who want to go to the UK, or Germany, or Canada, or Sweden, or Chile. Or, as I mentioned, a local non-OECD country with shared language or culture. |
Yer right. If they (a) want to go there, and (b) are allowed to go there, why aren't they there already?
Dur... |
Tannin, are you trolling me?
Surely you know as well as I do that those countries have refugees. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Dangles
Balmey Army
Joined: 14 May 2015
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3.14159 wrote: | I'm glad the ALP had a debate about the issue and came to the decision it did.
Firstly because here at last is a party talking about issues and letting the public in on the discussion.
(it's a refreshing change from the how the other 2 go about policy decisions).
2ndly because in the scheme of things it's far more important and we can now back to talking about real questions like how are we going to tackle climate change, is COAL Australia's ONLY viable option going into the the second decade of the 21 century, do we want to kiss goodbye to the Aussie dream of owning your home and sell it to a government subsidised nuevo rich Squattocracy etc etc etc?
3. By raising the quota of refugee intakes less people will be in detention and we get a better say on who we actually let in to the country.
4. Shorten proved he is a man that can admit when he got it wrong!
As far as I can see it's a win win win win decision and I applaud it! |
I agree with your comment about coal. I hope they get gay marriage off the books for the same reason, so we can focus more on other issues that have much more impact on our day to day lives.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread. I guess the message that has resonated for me is that our government really should be advocating for a global solution for looking after refugees and that simply turning back boats isn't going to solve the problem. |
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