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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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think positive wrote: | David wrote: | think positive wrote: | David wrote: | You're also a citizen with a vote. Better for it to be an informed one than an uninformed one, surely. |
Oh yeah, really gunna change a vote because some journo, or parisite who lives off feeding the general public bullshit, half truths or just what he thinks everyone wants to hear, might pay for their sins.
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How would you—or anyone—even know who to vote for if it wasn't for journalists? For the vast majority of us city-dwelling folk, at least, we only learn about the political parties and their policies through the news media. Beyond that, there's really just websites and advertising campaigns, both of which are 100% spin and neither of which anyone pays much attention to.
In this case, it's only the brave work of journalists that has allowed us (well, those of us who care) to learn about the extent of these anti-terror laws. This stuff can't be grasped through mere intuition; unless you're well-versed in law, it can be difficult to navigate through the online transcripts. Seriously, how else can you possibly know what's being done in our name? Without journalism you have no meaningful democracy. |
David I'm all for strict anti terrorist laws, better to be safe than blown up by a nail bomb!
As for figuring out who to vote for thanks to 'brave (hahaha, unless they are in a war zone) ' journalists, bullshit, I just read nicks! For instance, I don't think we will vote to simular very often! |
It's an extreme analogy, but the idea of trading liberty for (supposed) safety and security is as old as the hills, and a very easy tool of manipulation. I'd never agree to any strict 'anti-terrorism' laws unless they were clearly justified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
By the way, has anyone actually seen any terrorists running around Australia lately? Any foiled bomb plots? Do they even exist? _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
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New phones are coming out which offer complete security of data. Thrown in VPN's. This is a challenge to Geeks to bypass national Security. The Government will spend billions tracking down data that means nothing and not focus on real terrorist that do not use modern communication as they know they can be traced. Waste of time and money. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Watched the cartoon, and it was pretty pathetic and patronising. You have to trust someone when there is danger, and I trust the Intelligence agencies to protect the security of my family more than anyone else with the same skills and mission. By all means let's audit the use of this data, but if that is done I am ok with it. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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^ I honestly think the way this entire policy has been developed and 'explained' to the public is pathetic and patronising. "You want to keep your kids safe, don't you?"
The basic fact is that the vast majority of the population have NFI what data retention is and what this policy means for the future of the country. This law is not being enacted because of public demand, but because of the rubber stamp of public apathy.
Sometimes you've got to dumb it down and hope that some information gets through. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Guess I'll have to just leave my VPN turned permanently on and go back to using a dumb phone (I barely call anyone, so they're welcome to that [lack of] data).
I don't have anything to hide (file sharing aside), but I believe strongly in personal liberty, privacy and the right of citizens to not consent to searches or for those searches to only be performed with a warrant. This legislation is criminalizing everyone.
Watching the West descend towards tyranny is pretty sad, but I guess that's the cycle of democracy. The ancient Greeks knew it, surprised we thought we could do it differently. |
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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A very inept policy that won't address the core problems of terrorism and protecting citizens in Australia from any terror-related threats. It's already been said but this is a fundamental breach of our freedom, civil liberties and privacy.
It's actually amazing that I support the Greens stance on this considering I can't stand the party in general. The two main parties are clearly out of their depth on this issue and the reasoning and practicality behind the bill is nonsense even if it may be founded on good intentions of protecting citizens from alleged threats even though I don't think it will make an ounce of difference in addressing terrorist threats in Australia.
I'm sure we'll see a increase of people using VPN when this legislation is passed through the parliament. _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010 Location: Ponsford End
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^ Fair point Wokko! _________________ | 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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And this is why polarised political discourse is such a bad thing. I may disagree with 80-90% of the LDP's policies, but when it comes to this important issue, he's one of the few critical voices being heard. A strategic alliance between right-libertarians and leftists on this issue is not just useful, but absolutely essential, because nobody else is going to put their hand up for this fight. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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David wrote: | ^ I honestly think the way this entire policy has been developed and 'explained' to the public is pathetic and patronising. "You want to keep your kids safe, don't you?"
The basic fact is that the vast majority of the population have NFI what data retention is and what this policy means for the future of the country. This law is not being enacted because of public demand, but because of the rubber stamp of public apathy.
Sometimes you've got to dumb it down and hope that some information gets through. |
Well, I live in a town where the tube line that my son takes nearly everyday was bombed in2005 with 8 deaths and many maimings. The perpetrators were radicalized through the Internet. The only people I know who are really working to stop that are MI5, and if the head of MI5 says metadata helps a lot, I am prepared to trust him with a few safeguards in place. So yes, keeping the kids safe is pretty real to me. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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^ Fair call can't disagree with that M ! _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ The safeguards bit is important, and I have points of contact with the civil libertarians - but I'd be happy with a set of guidelines regarding reasonable use, and an independent public audit to check whether privacy concerns were being abused. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation.”
― Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ well, Wokko, I know German history of 1920-1945 pretty well. If you think it parallels contemporary Australia in any significant way, then I think you're, as Darryl Kerrigan would say, dreamin' .... There is an argument about the limits of the state to be had here, but I don't think Hitler parallels take it too far. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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