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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | ronrat wrote: | | The problem is they are not. They fly into Jakarta and try to get a boat. The 40000 Burmese trying to get resettled from Thailand have missed out. Some have been there for 40 years. An International disgrace. I would rather these people be dealt with first. |
Yep exactly, so what do you do with the queue jumpers?
Hey David? Just what do you do? Don't lock em up, don't send em back, what the hell do you do? |
Process them quickly and efficiently, ideally in the community. If they're genuine refugees, let them stay; if not, send them back. It's not that hard.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | ronrat wrote: | | The problem is they are not. They fly into Jakarta and try to get a boat. The 40000 Burmese trying to get resettled from Thailand have missed out. Some have been there for 40 years. An International disgrace. I would rather these people be dealt with first. |
Yep exactly, so what do you do with the queue jumpers?
Hey David? Just what do you do? Don't lock em up, don't send em back, what the hell do you do? |
Process them quickly and efficiently, ideally in the community. If they're genuine refugees, let them stay; if not, send them back. It's not that hard. |
Obviously it is, how many people can you employ to do that thoroughly? Who is going to pay for it? And yes, what community are. You going to put at risk to do this? No they are obviously not all bad, but even if it's 1 in 1000 who is a peadophile, murderer, terrorist, the damage they can do, it's too high a risk.
A plan like that would be an open invitation to the scum of the earth.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I would say that a good deal more than 1 in 1000 people in your neighbourhood are child abusers, murderers, rapists or terrorists. Why would an asylum seeker pose a greater risk than anyone else?
The average asylum seeker is the same as you or I. I'll repeat that: the average asylum seeker is the same as you or I. There is no correlation between being an asylum seeker and having a tendency to harm other people.
As for who is going to pay for it, we are, and rightly so. That is what a good percentage of our taxes are supposed to go towards: helping people in need. It is a worthy cause.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | I would say that a good deal more than 1 in 1000 people in your neighbourhood are child abusers, murderers, rapists or terrorists. Why would an asylum seeker pose a greater risk than anyone else?
The average asylum seeker is the same as you or I. I'll repeat that: the average asylum seeker is the same as you or I. There is no correlation between being an asylum seeker and having a tendency to harm other people.
As for who is going to pay for it, we are, and rightly so. That is what a good percentage of our taxes are supposed to go towards: helping people in need. It is a worthy cause. |
Well I guess I live in a better neighbourhood than you!
I have no problem with a percentage of my taxes going to help those in need, I have a big problem of any of it going to scam artists that might come here under false pretences, and even more of a problem with it going to would be terrorists.
Human nature and it's ugly side means you can't just let everyone in.
You got a spare room or two?
How about the homeless here? Should they not get welfare first?
Where is all this money coming from?
You getting another job?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| "Scam artists"? Where do you get that? |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | I would say that a good deal more than 1 in 1000 people in your neighbourhood are child abusers, murderers, rapists or terrorists. Why would an asylum seeker pose a greater risk than anyone else?
The average asylum seeker is the same as you or I. I'll repeat that: the average asylum seeker is the same as you or I. There is no correlation between being an asylum seeker and having a tendency to harm other people.
As for who is going to pay for it, we are, and rightly so. That is what a good percentage of our taxes are supposed to go towards: helping people in need. It is a worthy cause. |
Well I guess I live in a better neighbourhood than you! |
Are you serious? How would you know if the guy three doors down is a date rapist or the woman at the end of the street sells drugs for a living? How would you know if the man in a suit across the road is a corrupt businessman? Do you think the man who drowned his kids had a big sign on his front lawn saying "future murderer"?
I'd wager that every suburban street has criminals or future criminals of some kind or other. That's just the way things are. Having an asylum seeker or two move into your neighbourhood neither increases nor decreases your risk any more than anyone else moving in would.
| think positive wrote: | I have no problem with a percentage of my taxes going to help those in need, I have a big problem of any of it going to scam artists that might come here under false pretences, and even more of a problem with it going to would be terrorists.
Human nature and it's ugly side means you can't just let everyone in. |
Yes, which is why I said that genuine refugees should be allowed in and non-refugees should be sent back.
| think positive wrote: | | You got a spare room or two? |
Do we have a housing shortage at the moment? Can we not build more?
| think positive wrote: | | How about the homeless here? Should they not get welfare first? |
Who said they shouldn't? It's not one or the other. I'd happily raise the upper tax rates before denying welfare to homeless people or refugees.
| think positive wrote: | Where is all this money coming from?
You getting another job? |
Knocking down the expensive detention centres in Papua New Guinea and Nauru would be a good start.
I would wager that we're not talking about a lot of money in the broad scheme of things.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ how do you process them ? Using what criteria with what evidence ? It's so serious an issue that each one would deserve a full judicial review. Do we have the means to pay for that ? Why not instead go to bona fide refugee camps and take however many people you feel we can absorb (which is a different debate in itself), where you won't actually encourage people smugglers and the wretched, tortured deaths that your compassion, however well-intended, has engendered ? Purity of intention often begets tragic consequence, and that is the problem here.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Mugwump wrote: | | ^ how do you process them ? Using what criteria with what evidence ? It's so serious an issue that each one would deserve a full judicial review. Do we have the means to pay for that ? Why not instead go to bona fide refugee camps and take however many people you feel we can absorb (which is a different debate in itself), where you won't actually encourage people smugglers and the wretched, tortured deaths that your compassion, however well-intended, has engendered ? Purity of intention often begets tragic consequence, and that is the problem here. |
yesyesyes
David, theres easily 1000 people in a 100 metre radius of my house, im hoping there is "only" 1 rapist, murderer, terrorist in that lot!!
and I see you are once again happy to raise OTHER PEOPLES TAXES!
whatever, same argument all the time, so easy to put your hand up for someone else. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | ^ how do you process them ? Using what criteria with what evidence ? It's so serious an issue that each one would deserve a full judicial review. Do we have the means to pay for that ? Why not instead go to bona fide refugee camps and take however many people you feel we can absorb (which is a different debate in itself), where you won't actually encourage people smugglers and the wretched, tortured deaths that your compassion, however well-intended, has engendered ? Purity of intention often begets tragic consequence, and that is the problem here. |
yesyesyes
David, theres easily 1000 people in a 100 metre radius of my house, im hoping there is "only" 1 rapist, murderer, terrorist in that lot!!
and I see you are once again happy to raise OTHER PEOPLES TAXES!
whatever, same argument all the time, so easy to put your hand up for someone else. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! |
You're very optimistic. What is the statistic again, 1 in 5 women will be raped at one point in their lives? (I don't know if that's true, but it's often cited.) Even given that some men will have several victims, that's an awful lot of rapists. A lot more than 1 in 1000.
And yes, I'm happy to raise "OTHER PEOPLE'S TAXES". That's a far lesser sin than deciding who gets to live or die. You do realise that lives are at stake here, right?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I have read good critical analyses of these claims too, Wokko, but as they appear to be a minority view I'm reserving judgement.
Whatever the case, the essence of my point is correct, right? The ratio of serious criminals in a given street would be a lot more than 1 in 1000. Probably greater than 1 in 100, actually.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| I'd say that depends on the demographic and what you consider 'serious'. It's not until you see a police raid and a disassembled meth lab coming out of a nicely manicured 'quiet' house that you pause to wonder what the **** is going on around you. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Children & Detention:
A yr 9 student called my brother ( a teacher for nearly 40 years) a fat old cnut on yard duty once. My brother yelled back:
Right you've got detention: "No one calls me old"
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Kids are cool. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | ^ how do you process them ? Using what criteria with what evidence ? It's so serious an issue that each one would deserve a full judicial review. Do we have the means to pay for that ? Why not instead go to bona fide refugee camps and take however many people you feel we can absorb (which is a different debate in itself), where you won't actually encourage people smugglers and the wretched, tortured deaths that your compassion, however well-intended, has engendered ? Purity of intention often begets tragic consequence, and that is the problem here. |
yesyesyes
David, theres easily 1000 people in a 100 metre radius of my house, im hoping there is "only" 1 rapist, murderer, terrorist in that lot!!
and I see you are once again happy to raise OTHER PEOPLES TAXES!
whatever, same argument all the time, so easy to put your hand up for someone else. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS! |
You're very optimistic. What is the statistic again, 1 in 5 women will be raped at one point in their lives? (I don't know if that's true, but it's often cited.) Even given that some men will have several victims, that's an awful lot of rapists. A lot more than 1 in 1000.
And yes, I'm happy to raise "OTHER PEOPLE'S TAXES". That's a far lesser sin than deciding who gets to live or die. You do realise that lives are at stake here, right? |
You handing over your baby bonus? (Didn't have it in my day). How about foregoing your student perks? Any part of your government assistance your willing to give up?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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