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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008 Location: The Collibran Hideout
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With more options in the forward line they may have the oppotunity to change Travis's role. The fact is that the plans for our forward line last year were never realised as Reid didn't get much opposite to have any impact, Faz played in the backline, White did not realise his potential and others where injured at different stages of the season. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Im sure the day that collingwood selectors think that they have better options than cloke and brown, they will pick them.
BTW, what are you trading cloke for ? Another KPF ? |
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Didaksgoal
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
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Interesting post, sem.
Browny will never be a star, and at best will be serviceable. Browny just hasn't had the consistency of say 12-15 games in-a-row, as he's always injured. Consistent game time would benefit him I'm sure.......but it won't turn him into a star full-back. At the moment, we are so skinny down back, we need him just to fill the "most experienced backman" role. The game the other night, he looked like he was still on holidays.........and had a crap game by any standards. Let's hope the super-glue into the shoulder has done the trick, and Browny can have confidence in his body to do a good job.
The forward plan the last few years has been rubbish.......Kick it long to Cloke and hope!!!!!! No crumbers, and most of the time the ball is repelled immediately. It's not Cloke at fault, it's the coaching plan and forward set-up. Clokey is a keeper, we need him, faults and all.
Go the Pies! |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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I would say brown had a standard game by his standards, I honestly cannot fathom what people see in him...he cannot kick it...he does not read it....he gets out bodied and out paced and he is injury prone.
Cloke I would keep, but I would not play him deep forward. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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Cloke needs to get back on his bike this season and work his opponents over with gut running and then take a rest deep forward at times.
Brown needs continuity of games to get some form going as he has missed a hell of a lot of football in recent years.
Only then will we know his true value to the side.
Brown still might be our best option to take on the gorillas of the AFL and while Frost had a very promising first season he still has a few weak points that need addressing one being he often played to far behind his opponent last season and was caught out more than you'd like to see on the lead. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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richo
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
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I am a 96 year old man who has been to every training and game since I was born. I reckon we should keep cloke and brown. |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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i think you need to be careful not to base long term judgments on their last campaign where they were both injured and incapacitated.
Brown went ok in 2010-2012 when injury free. Pretty much a shut down full back in the presti mould. He did ok on the big stage TWICE against Nick Reiwoldt (who might then have been the best in the business). He was very rusty against the Hawks this week. there is no replicated game time. He also needs to restore his own belief in his shoulder.
Re Cloke, his mobility was destroyed last year by injury. I agree that his lack of mobility last year hurt us as much as it helped us, especially if he is a lone wolf. Recall that in 2010 and 2011, we had no problem sharing the goals around, and Cloke did ok during those periods. It is not uncommon for a big CHF like him to start breaking down at 28 so it may be that the 2014 Cloke is all we are going to get. if that is the case, then I think you have a strong argument that he is way overvalued financially. If he can overcome his ailments of 2014, I think he will be unstoppable in a well functioning forwardline, when he only has one man to beat. He will also be able to create space for Karnezis and Elliot and Faz if he can move one or 2 defenders to his part of the ground and they work the other parts (like the Hawks do with Breust and Gunston).
so I see your thoughts here, but wonder if they aren't too based on most recent form which for the reasons stated above, might not be the best games to judge them on (but if they dont recover from these injuries, they may be). _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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swoop42 wrote: | Cloke needs to get back on his bike this season and work his opponents over with gut running and then take a rest deep forward at times.
Brown needs continuity of games to get some form going as he has missed a hell of a lot of football in recent years.
Only then will we know his true value to the side.
Brown still might be our best option to take on the gorillas of the AFL and while Frost had a very promising first season he still has a few weak points that need addressing one being he often played to far behind his opponent last season and was caught out more than you'd like to see on the lead. |
because Frost is undersized, he has to create space with his opponent so he can use his speed and leap to effect the spoil. if he allows his opponent to create body contact (and I'm talking about the big forwards he was asked to mind last year), the will body him out of position and his strengths vanish. occasionally the drop of the ball means he is out of position. With Brown back to take the beasts, I wonder how Frost will go on the second or third option? You might find he can compete mano-a-mano with these guys and you might not have that complaint of him anymore. _________________ Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Defender wrote: | Cloke's being played out of position, get him back to CHF IMO, and Brown is vastly overrated by most fans. |
Not often I agree with you, but I do on both counts.
Cloke is big and Strong and can lead, pretty quick for his size, but not for long. Therefore locking him at full back puts too much pressure on his body, too easy to lock him down, he has to go at an angle, and well we know how that goes. Give him a bit of freedom, with air on all four sides of him. He's a mountain, makes him hard to defend from all sides. hopefully we have enough targets that can kick a goal, to give him the break he needs. Has everyone forgotten the spread of goal kickers we had 2009-2010? Gave Cloke the freedom to shine. Have to get rid of the "kick it to Cloke, Kick it to Cloke" mentality. When I picture Cloke, I picture him running with a defender hanging off each arm, and another pushing him in the back! The umpires will never pay him, so we need to give him room another way. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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richo wrote: | I am a 96 year old man who has been to every training and game since I was born. I reckon we should keep cloke and brown. |
Gees with that kind of dependability, durability, you should be playing _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Dark Beanie
Joined: 06 Feb 2004 Location: A galaxy far, far away.
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Have I missed the season?
Its only March isn't it? _________________ If you are foolish enough to be contented, don't show it, but just grumble with the rest. - Jerome K Jerome |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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Cloke is one of, if not the best contested mark in the league. Played in the right position with the right support, he is easily in the top 5 best power forwards in the league.
Brown, whilst plagued by injury, is a very reliable shutdown defender in the Presti mould. In 2013 he was beaten by his opponent in maybe 3 games. He is still easily a better quality defender than Frost or Keeffe when he is fit.
But yeah, you're an old dude, and that somehow gives credence to your ramblings, so let's get rid of them. |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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Yeah Stupied being old is a crime m8 isn't it?
I'm 61 this year myself.
Just because I've lived 6 decades doesn't make me wise . . .
But it doesn't make me a decrepit old fool either . . .
Some people are ready for retirement at 40 - old before there time . . .
And others are going strong at 80 . . .
Generalizations are for the mentally lazy m8
Look beyond the obvious stereotypes. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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That was the entire point of why I said it mate. The age of any of us is irrelevant in this discussion, and it always annoys me when someone starts off a post with something like "I've been supporting the pies for 58 years!" as if it adds some sort of credence to their opinion.
Age doesn't make one foolish. Saying foolish things makes one foolish. Getting rid of a top 5 key forward and a very dependable stopper who are both leaders at the club (both are in the leadership group ffs), is in my opinion, incredibly foolish. |
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WarrenerraW
Joined: 18 Apr 2008 Location: Melbourne
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Shouldn't we be waiting till the end of the season before we pass judgement on them... Brown has had a horror run with injuries and lack of pre-season training the last few years so it will be interesting to see how he fairs this year in terms of form and if his body holds up.
Cloke is frustratingly brilliant. Takes a great mark but isn't the most reliable in front of goal which often lets the team down. I'd still keep him. He needs to really back up his kicking though. You can't really question his work ethic. He works hard to get to a contest. Last year he was marred by poor form and injury. It might help also if the team actually delivered the ball to him lace out as opposed to nowhere near him. Yes Sidebottom I'm talking about you. That can't do much for your confidence when your team mates fail to honour your lead.
I would not trade Cloke. As for Brown. It comes down to form and fitness. We have a younger and fitter team and more options down back. He may have to start working harder to cement a spot as I don't think he's necessarily guaranteed a spot in the best 22 at the moment. |
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