The Value of a Ruckman - Revisited

[bokka]

Despite all the hyperbole about Gardiner that 15 minutes had very little to do with him - most of the goals came from general play. You can be sure that next time we play toast it will be a totally different story, we will have worked them out.
From what I've seen Josh when he does win the ruck is a lot more effective in giving us clean possession, I also saw him do a lot of grabbing and handballling out of the ruck a la Polly Farmer and that is far more damaging than taps, and doesn't show up in the tap stats - same with McKee actually. I suggest you have another look at the replay.

[chalky]

stoid, you wrote

"That 15 minutes cost us the game"

This is the type shrill paranoia that prompts me to respond to those who make ill considered comments re our lack of a tap ruckman.

If you believe your own comment then you have a very narrow and blinkered view of how our team sets up. Gardiner certainly did not win the game for WC in those 15 mins. We lost because we did not take the opportunities when presented to us throughout the whole game and especially so in those last 15mins when we could have sealed our victory.

It is obvious that I do not value the type of ruckman you do. Once this type of one dimentional player is beaten in the ruck contest they are useless to the side eg Capuano (an idiot below his knees). The type of ruckman I value will play more than 15 mins of football!
I value ruckmen that have more than one skill. That contribute more to the team than just jumping in the centre of the ground. That get in and under, get their knees dirty, follow up the ball in dispute, move quickly to provide another avenue to goal. McKee might get killed in the tap out stat but his efforts in other areas more than make up for it IMO.

I'm not the only person who thinks this. Hasn't it occurred to you that MM also thinks this to be the case? That he did not actively pursue a tap ruckman pre season shows that there is a plan. He had his choice and chose midfielders. The advantages of having a McKee/Fraser/Rocca combination far outweigh the disadvantages of losing some IMO over- rated tap stat

The debate was about the value of a TAP ruckman. I value ruckmen - I admire Darcy for his strength, agility, mobility and work ethic around the ground. He works hard for a shit midfield. Him I wouldn't mind having!

[stoid]

C'mon Chalky, how tall are you?
MM has no other choice at the moment than to keep going with Stunner. But at the end of the year we will get Darcy, you can count on that.

[Burnley Paul]

While it is obvious that it is better to have a good ruckman than a bad one, I think some of the stats this year show that their value is a bit overrated. In the Geelong game for example, we were beaten in the hitouts by a massive 25 but only just edged out by 3 in the clearances. A physical midfield is of far more value. It is probably no coincidence that the top ruckmen (Darcy, King, Everett) are at the bottom of the ladder clubs whilst the grand final last year was played out by two teams with lowly rated ruckmen.

[foxy]

well said Burnley Paul.

unfortunately, some would also argue that the lack of a true tap ruckman actually cost us the granny last year.

it's a tricky debate.

i always think it's important to remember that stunning is still very young for a ruckman (what is he, 23/24?). in 2 years or so he could have completely matured and learnt to overcome his weaknesses.

and, of course, josh is still a baby in rucking terms.

cam cloke looks the goods as well for an 18-year old.

[Member]

The pies are not interested in Luke Darcy
His manager has been shopping him around for a better deal.

He will be 29 next year and wants to secure himself financially as this could be the last time he signs a decent contract.

I personally don't feel that we need to buy a ruckman.
Josh Fraser, Cameron Cloke and Guy Richards will be the future of our ruck brigade.

Everyone knows that Mckee is filling in time until one of these boys stands up
they are all in their infancy as ruckmen
How old was Gardiner(west coast) King(geelong) and Darcy(bulldongs)
before they became consistent good ruckmen?
Well at least 24-25 years of age. Josh is still 21 and getting better
They are not throwing him to the pack as his body is still maturing

Gardiner is 24, King is 25 and Darcy is 28

Were they guns at 21? No they weren't

The pies outfit is still maturing and will definately get better as the years go on, lets not get ahead of ourselfs.

If you look closely at the top 4 teams at the moment they all have skilled attacking half back flankers, players that can create.

Our back flankers are still turning it over with poor skills but we will get better with the acquisition of these type of players.

With that in mind, I know that the recruiting target for next year will be a tallish midfielder with great skills.
I am not saying they will get him but that is their target
The Darcy thing is all black smoke and coming from his manager not us