What's wrong with Josh ?? (& Leon)

[couragous cloke]

After watching Joshes game last night I was left wondering.
What is wrong with Frase?
I honestly think he has improved around the ruck and helped us out with the clearances but he was terrible around the ground!!!
Every kick and handball was a hospital and when he had Didak on for the pass he chose instead to set Johnson up for the mark of the day.
It seems as if every kick he has sets up the opposition for a turnover.
For gods sake!!! PUT IT OUT INFRONT and give the guys room to take the mark in.

Is this just a confidence thing or does he lack the footy smarts when he is put under pressure.

Now to Leon. I haven't seen him perform in any of the blockbuster games where the opposition he has is tough in his career.
PLEASE STOP PLAYING FOR FREE KICKS. your becoming way too predictable Leon.

As for the rest of the team we played well. any other team would of lost by 10 goals and if we kicked straight the result could have been different.

[SS11]

I think Josh is suffering a rare case of "McKernanism" Big ruckman fella, so much potential but he is so down on his confidence at the moment...

Once he realises he is a good footballer and still deserves to be out there, his performances will improve.

[bokka]

Interesting to see comments from Kev Sheedy on Hille today, that they didn't want to "wreck" him by throwing him into the ruck fulltime last year, they kept 02 as a development year. In retrospect it may be that this happened to Josh in his first year, getting smashed around over and again by huge opposition when he was pretty much a twig. Probably was a big mistake exposing him too much in that first year - but I think he'll slowly get over it - just has to get over that conditioning of feeling like a "pushover" after all that. Even though it doesn't relate directly to what you're saying re passing etc it might be in the back of the mind that you're about to get smashed again and your poise is shattered.
Challenge for Malthouse and the staff on how to work him out of it.
for a start they should only play him as back-up ruck for the whole of this season at least, and maybe even why not try to use him as a backman for this season, he has excellent attributes to be a Fletcher type. I don't think it's as harsh in the backline since you are the hunter not the hunted.

[natkingcole]

Why are we knocking players who are going to form the basis of our team structure for the next 5 - 10 years! Josh is one year older than Richards yet Richards can't even get a game for Williamstown seniors. I don't see any articles here about what's wrong with Richards. The answer to your question is there is nothing wrong with Josh. Josh is coming along just fine. Please leave the poor kid alone. The real question you should ask is the shocking performance we put up in the last quarter of the Port Melbourne match and why a player like Cranage who can't even get onto a list, was one of the few players to put in. Answer, several Collingwood players will be looking at new careers at the end of the season. To name them, Kinnear, Holland, Rupert, Richards, Richardson, Swan. Another in Cole, who is too good not to be involved in AFL should start looking for a new club.

[Cam]

i watched the willi game too. only mcgough and holland showed much as far as doing something towards a recall.

[AbsoluteTallant]

There's nothing wrong with Josh, nothing to worry about at least.

The key thing with Josh is that everyone wants or expects him to be a ruckman. Well quite frankly if he doesn't make it as a ruckman or takes even 6 years to mature as a ruckman, who cares? He's a brilliant CHF who at 202cm can feed off a handball below his knees on either side in milliseconds. And yes we do need another option at CHF as Anthony tends to move around until he finds an effective role in the forward line. That role doesn't always encompass CHF duties. Think Round 8 last year when we stretched Brisbane's defence by using a 4 tall, 2 small forward line. Now they've got Brennan for Tarrant, we need Josh at CHF even more.

Have a look at how dead eye straight Josh's set shot goalkicking is! He doesn't need as much confidence to play CHF because he stills knows he's a rock solid kick so all he needs is some confidence in his marking.

As for Leon, you can't contribute when you're sitting on the pine. MM seems to decide quite regularly that Leon isn't in the starting 18. I find this incredulous and the sooner it is reversed the better. The thing about Leon is that he's still physically small (yet actually packs a real whack with his hip and shoulders) so several things are difficult like breaking tackles and hence he chooses to tap the ball in front of him and make an opponent chase him and maybe tackle him without the ball. This is verging on the Kevin Bartlett tactics that were outlawed and umps are starting to call play on...

When he came on late against Brisbane on Thursday I have this memory of him streaming out of the middle and kicking a lovely 30 metre pass to the HFF. That is the sort of stuff we should be letting Leon do more often but alas to get onball opportunities you also need size to shove off/break through the big opponents. Hence at the moment he's only being used as a midfielder - someone who bursts in from outside the centre square at ball ups and attempts to sweep through with the ball and use his pace and skills to drive the ball forward. This role is not an easy one to play and hence MM needs to look at how else to use Leon's spectactular skills.

[Nicholas]

the reason why Josh cops more than Richards is because he was a number one pick while Guy was just selected more as a punt by NJ to shore up the ruck.

[natkingcole]

Richards was touted as a top 10 pick, even though from memory he went about no.39 and in the same draft I think Lonie went about 2 places lower. Our expectations were therefore that Richards would at the very least be pushing for selection after 3 years. That this hasn't happened, one reason could be due to injuries, however you can't keep making excuses for players. Last year I remember at the three quarter time huddle at one of the Williamstown games that Gotch directly appealed to Richards to lift his game if we were going to win. Subsequently Richards did nothing and Williamstown lost. You have to ask yourself do you want to keep players at Collingwood who aren't going to apply themselves when pressure is put onto them. Alternatively discover the reason the player isn't responding. Is it the coaching staff? Then sack the coach and get someone who the players respond to. Otherwise accept the fact that we are not going to win another premiership.

[scud]

Richards was always going to be a long term prospect however his development has been hampered by long term injuries including a kidney operation. I believe he had injuries throughout the pre season as well. He will need to bulk up before he can play senior football but he definately has the skill to play AFL football. I hope you never have anything to do with selecting players at our club natkingcole because you would sack them all and the coach as well. Malthouse is the reason we are going so well. Do you understand anything about football? Young players take time to develop. Cole is only 19 yet you expect him to be a superstar.Are you sure your not a carlton supporter.

[natkingcole]

Scud, I just find it interesting that in this thread and numerous other threads I've read here that the Collingwood supportors engage in bashing a player who at the age of 21 has played over 50 games in one of the difficult positions on the field and busted his guts for the Collingwood football club. Yet we go soft on a player who can't even crack it for the Williamstown seniors. Show us where our priories lie.

[AbsoluteTallant]

I agree that natkingcole's initial comments were OTT in that they were quite reactionary (sack the player or sack the coach) but I agree with his defense of Josh too, which I think was the essence of his comments (?).

Richards was picked when 17 and was skinny as a goalpost by all accounts. Then the kidney scenario. However sure his time is coming up, everyone knows that, not the least of whom would be himself. Why isn't he playing #1 ruck for Willie? Has Cameron taken his position already? Or is he injured? I personally feel that any player who hasn't showed something substantial after 4 years, whether they are picked as a 17 year old or not, is unlikely to produce anything.

Our ruck problems have been compounded by the failure of Brent Tuckey who was also picked at 17 years old as a potential ruckman. In the end they played him as a full forward and his kicking wasn't up to it, however he seemed to have a good leap for a ruckman...

Josh will be fine. He is no doubt low on confidence and he's also his own hardest critic, either factor doesn't help the other.

Someone just needs to give him a pat on the back and let him work through his troubles. His efforts in the ruck against Geelong, along with Burnsy's sharking, were what helped us win it. Against Brisbane he was off colour but then so was Jarrad Molloy who has a lot fewer excuses.

[CQ]

bla bla bla too much to read, simple answer is they both have fingerstuckinarseitis and also toomuchfakingforfreekickarama

[couragous cloke]

agree'd. natkingcole, the difference between people baggng josh instead of richards is because JOSH WAS NUMBER 1 draft pick. if you ask me, i expect more from a number 1 draft pick that has been playing afl football for 3 years, personally i love josh, great public speeker and seems to know where the goals are, but i'd expect a lift in his game come anzac day, and a bit of consistancy.