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1eyedpie 
Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne
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| Magpietothemax wrote: |
Interesting video, and correctly points out many individual errors. Presented irrefutable evidence that our incapacity to stick tackles was a massive factor in this loss - that to me suggests we have not started with optimum energy levels due to whatever (training loads, shorter preseason) and won't persist.
However, seemed too much focussed on presenting Charlie Dean as the culprit in D50, when I think that this was not the true picture. Dean was often left to fend for himself against quality opposition after our turnovers upfield, and the Swans'ball movement was pretty devastating.
Likewise focussed on AJ's lack of impact, but the lack of structure and incisiveness in our F50 was as much due to our lack of incisive ball movement. |
I didn’t think he was solely focused on Dean as the culprit but rather pointed out his mistakes of going to ground/slipping over far too easy.
I’m not attacking Dean but he had a poor game the night IMO. The guy has missed virtually 2 years of footy and he should be playing vfl getting his confidence back.
Billy Frampton should be ahead of him!
The YouTube video is very informative and makes very good points on the mistakes the players made which can be fixed.
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| 1eyedpie wrote: |
I didn’t think he was solely focused on Dean as the culprit but rather pointed out his mistakes of going to ground/slipping over far too easy.
I’m not attacking Dean but he had a poor game the night IMO. The guy has missed virtually 2 years of footy and he should be playing vfl getting his confidence back.
Billy Frampton should be ahead of him!
The YouTube video is very informative and makes very good points on the mistakes the players made which can be fixed. |
Definitely understand what you are saying. However, I think he needs continuity...practice over the next few days at contesting aerially, and if he does well, back him in to perform better in the next game. Moreover, our defence needs to adapt better - especially Darcy - by playing tighter. Moreover, our team defence - as the video also pointed out - was clearly off, with several players upfield (IQ, Beau and Crisp were flagged from memory) guarding space rather than going to the man. this allowed the ball to come into our D50 with lethal speed and accuracy.
Dean has played just 2 games - we need to develop a replacement for Murph, and many of the situations Dean found himself in would have been avoided last year, when our team defence was on song.
I would actually be playing Frampton as AJ's replacement. I would like to see McInnes string demonstrate a strong VFL performance first before going into the role, as his pre-season did not make him stand out compared with AJ. Frampton we know can tie up the best opposition defender, and if he has been practising his forward craft over the summer, he might take a few grabs as well.
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swooper
Joined: 24 Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne
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Coming into this season, expectations were high for AJ to step up in light of Dan's knee injury.
I wonder if he is struggling a bit under all this ?
I remember him in 2022 and he really seemed to be enjoying his football, seemed to be playing with less weight on his shoulders
Just a theory...
( I for one am really really hoping he can turn things around)
...sorry just realised there is a AJ thread already... |
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shawthing
Joined: 04 Jul 2019
Location: Victoria Park
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| 23 YIPPEE!!! wrote: | | its going for a sydney swans v gws giants grand final mark my words. |
Lock it in Eddie. As close to a certainly (based on each teams' lists and form not to mention AFL bias) as you could pick.
The only question is whether the AFL would then move the GF to Sydney. |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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| lazzadesilva wrote: | After watching it live, you are spot on and it’s a bit sad that you are, in the sense that it is not rocket science. I will add one thing more, the Swans time and time again were able to “predict” our next play/handball/kick and cut it off very easily. This was frustrating to watch and hence my criticism of Leppa for not varying or changing the strategic aspects of our game. Through exposure or docs like “the next step”, we have become extremely predictable. Predictability makes it easy to defend against us, ie. causes many turnovers.
Believe me, we are vulnerable against the Saints this week unless we turn it around immediately and start playing determined football again and focusing on the aspects that weren’t there or seen last night. It was awful to watch 😫 |
Indeed, from the top deck you could see the Swans setting up in the corridor behind the ball and choked us time and time again. It was like they knew what areas to be, and sometimes our turnovers were simply a result of a Swan being were a Magpie usually is.
Fly inferred that in his presser:
"We didn't hold it in when we needed to or clear the territory or the area when we should have too. We tried to kick going through it, rather we should have gone around it or over it."
"I think it's probably more trying to use the ball how the opposition is defending us. They think that they're going to over slide and defend certain parts so there's opportunities to switch the play a bit more. If you watch the ground, you can see it. There's players free everywhere on the open side so you go let's explore that but we're not maybe ready there to execute at that level that we need to. Maybe looking for it or rushing it."
It looks like our guys are onto it, it will be interesting to see how we tweak things this week.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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Brisbane getting well beaten by Fremantle at the moment.
Makes me wonder if the early start to the season has impacted the Grand Finalists from last year?
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The Black and White Lion
The Black and White Lion
Joined: 29 Apr 2022
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Yes all Nicksters let’s take solace that Brisbane are 0-2 and we’re only separate by the round 0 percentage
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Premiership Pies made it legendary in 2023, don’t let them forget it. #Go PIES 2024…. |
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bally12 
Joined: 30 Sep 2010
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It was very noticeable how easily Sydney brushed off our tackles. It was like men against boys.
Heeney monstering Charlie Dean, even while Heeney tripped up, was a pretty ominous sign for Dean to be fair.
We desperately need an injection of youth.
Where's Ed Allan at? Mcinnes and Macrae need to play.
Sydney cut us up with their kicking. Hine has no idea how to pick players that can kick. I think the game's heading in that direction where great kicking teams will separate themselves from the rest. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Gerry Cooper wrote: | | Ronnie McKeowns boots wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | What we need is to bring Ginni in to spark the forward line. How's his form been? |
Went MIA in the second half yesterday |
he played true to his usual form then. |
DID Ginni go to the races the night before his debut with the Dawks ,true too form ?? 
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piffdog
Joined: 18 Jun 2021
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| bally12 wrote: | It was very noticeable how easily Sydney brushed off our tackles. It was like men against boys.
Heeney monstering Charlie Dean, even while Heeney tripped up, was a pretty ominous sign for Dean to be fair.
We desperately need an injection of youth.
Where's Ed Allan at? Mcinnes and Macrae need to play.
Sydney cut us up with their kicking. Hine has no idea how to pick players that can kick. I think the game's heading in that direction where great kicking teams will separate themselves from the rest. |
Hard to imagine we can resolve a "men against boys" issue by bringing in youth... I'd also say that I think oiur kicking for the last couple years as a whole team has been pretty good.
Agree with others on here that dropping Mitchell and then picking MacRae as a sub was odd.
The reason they cut us up with their kicking was because they were turning it over and we are all out of shape behind the ball. We just couldnt hold up to their pressure - and that was probably something we were good at last year but have succumbed to these last 2 games.
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piffdog
Joined: 18 Jun 2021
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I think the two games so far have highlighted one of our problems from last year. I know we won the flag, but we had plentyt of moments along the way where that wasnt a slam-dunk. Teams were frequently able to get a run on us and kick several goals - sometimes pretty easily.
We play so aggressive in our positioning, that if we dont hang on to the ball, we get embarrassed when we turn it over. If we cough it up on the wing, all of a sudden its going inside 50 to Dean vs Heeney and Darcy Moore is standing by himself on the flank positioning for a smitch and then attacking kick forward.
In addition, I think that not being ablew to retain the ball and move it quickly forward is giving oppo defenders time to flood back, which is then making it harder for us to score. It doesnt help when you pick Johnson as one of your talls and get no contribution.
Our players didnt become terrible over the offseason, but I do think that the way we play (with dare and risk) has been the secret of our success, and helps to make up for individual deficiencies in players (anyone on a list can take an uncontested chest mark or hit a 30m target if theyre not under pressure). When you cant or wont play like that (which is the real question to ask IMO) then the whole game plan looks horrible and it feels like you are no good down back, up forward and in the midfield. It also makes individual players look poor.
So I think its a system thing. The bad omen here is though, if other teamns can play our 2023 game plan and style, but play it with better individual talent, then we're not going to beat them.
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LaurieHolden
Floreat Gymnorhina tyrannica
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Location: Victoria Park
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1st quarter ~
Crisp two errant handballs - two turnovers
Maynard errant kick from defence - turnover. Maynard 3x long bombs to an undersized forward group easily picked off.
Moore beaten twice by Macdonald to the ball - SYD shot on goal. Moore caught behind his opponent and out-marked twice.
Moore bomb from defence > marked uncontested by Melican > spread ball to Heaney > IQ caught miles from Fox > Sidebottom gathers > handball intercepted > balls comes free IQ gathers then fumbles.
Dean overcooked a kick to Cameron - turnover.
Howe grubs a kick out of defence - turnover > Heaney steps and stiff arms through a Howe tackle > IQ loses his man in Fox - shot on goal - pass intercepted by JDG > kicks errantly OOB.
Sidey steps then caught with the ball in the F50 > Fox shot on goal > Amartey beats Moore in the air > SYD rushed behind.
Markov caught holding the ball > SYD behind.
Ball up, Cameron tap link play Pendles handball > Naicos handball > Sidebottom in space errant handball turnover > Warner gathers > SYD behind.
Hill 30m pass > Mihocek dropped contested mark.
Jaicos free pass > JDG pass > Naicos 60m bomb for goal.
Cox into the ruck tap > Naicos handball > JDG kick to HFF rushed over boundary.
Dodgy umpires throw in Grundy clean possession tackled by Cox turnover Lipinski handball > Cox handball > Naicos handball Lipinski kick to top of square > Hill goal.
Centre bounce contested ball Naicos gives away free kick to Rowbottom kick f50 > Heaney gets off his man marks > SYD behind.
Moore kick > mark Dean kick > Markov mark > Dean runs past asking for link handball ignored, kick Maynard > Markov runs past for link handball ignored > switch ignored long bomb centre wing > ball-up. Sydney possesses then chip and go until finding leads > F50.
Ruck contest > SYD rushed behind.
Howe kick out > IQ mark kick > Johnson beaten cold by Melican in a 1on1. Johnson didn't get body on player to make a contest.
Johnson drops regulation high mark in F50.
Howe errant kick into an open F50 > turnover.
Cox made 2x great defensive marks within as many minutes.
And on it went...
Summary - Swans cut our running game off, in particular IQ and Markov. Collingwood bombed it into our forward half 4 times to be easily picked off.
Johnson plays bruise free football. Dean is simply raw, but he has very good hands and is prepared to move it on, suiting our playing style. Anyone potting him simply didn't watch the game properly as to the reasons he was exposed. It was a dirty night by our experienced defence.
Experienced players in Howe, Maynard, IQ Crisp made crucial uncontested disposal errors, simply not doing the basics well.
Sydney played more composed football when required and had more options in their F50. There a good side and were allowed to settle into their gameplan. Ours, I'm not sure what it was really. One thing is for certain, we miss the presence of a leading forward. Where have I heard that before?...
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2023 AFL Premiers |
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The Black and White Lion
The Black and White Lion
Joined: 29 Apr 2022
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It was a bad game from the Pies and maybe I didn’t watch the second half with the same anticipation as the first but I’m surprised Nick Daicos got the 2 Coaches votes and that Cameron got zero votes. I thought Cameron was our best on ground and many of Daicos’ plays were picked off by the Swans.
Always interesting to see how the Coaches see differently. Would be good to get some explanation of the coaches votes sometimes to understand how they do differ
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Premiership Pies made it legendary in 2023, don’t let them forget it. #Go PIES 2024…. |
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LaurieHolden
Floreat Gymnorhina tyrannica
Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Location: Victoria Park
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^I suspect you're right and I also had Cameron as our best alongside Nick, but perhaps the coaches though he and Grundy cancelled each other out?
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"The Club's not Jock, Ted and Gerry" (& Eddie)
2023 AFL Premiers |
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piffdog
Joined: 18 Jun 2021
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Is the competition so close that the only difference between teams (or most teams) is appetite? If so, it's hard to imagine us being hungrier than any of the others who fancied themselves in 2023... We are certainly not the most skilled so cant rely on talent alone.
Laurie reading your blow by blow of the first quarter, its hard to imagine we could play much worse! As a fan just need to recalibrate expectations and take enjoyment out of watching the team and coaches accept the challenge.
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