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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | People's religous and cultural backgrounds should be taken into account. Treating young Indigenous men, particularly those from remote communities and/or with trauma backgrounds, shouldn't be treated the same as white private school boys who've come through an elite pathway.
Eddie Betts couldn't read when first drafted by carlton. When his family first moved to Melbourne so he could try to get into the AFL his family were sleeping on the floor in Byron Pickett's garage.
Clubs work with their Muslim players who fast during Ramadan and may have prayer room requirements at the club. What if the young Jewish player at Norf has issues playing Friday Night? Do you just say "suck it up" or do you work with him to sort out a mutual agreement?
Good clubs (and workplaces) should treat everyone the same, to a point, and then make changes in approach depending on their background and culture. |
I agree that certain cultural beliefs should be taken into account, 100% but I also believe that we should treat EVERYONE with respect, regardless of race, if you do that your 99% home surely.
I treat everyone with respect and kindness, if they don't reciprocate, I used to get narky, but 9 times out of 10 these days, I bless and release.
lots of people have trauma backgrounds. even some white kids from private schools have trauma backgrounds, they deserve respect too.
just respect everybody
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Absolutely. Respect should be a given.
I bet your daughter treats all her students with the same level of respect, but I'll also bet she recognises which ones need something extra or different because of their background.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Correct I just asked her!
I’ll add more tonight after the game! Cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Wonder of wonders...... Clarko, Fagan and Burt are all cleared of breaking any AFL rules.🤔 |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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Why is it a wonder of wonders? I would have thought that what they were accused of saying / doing was more unbelievable?
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | Why is it a wonder of wonders? I would have thought that what they were accused of saying / doing was more unbelievable? |
It is still unknown what was actually said or done. This could still come to light in another setting that is concerned with the rights and treatment of individuals eg Human Rights Commission.
It suits the stature of the AFL to find that major figures within their game have nothing to answer to, despite them never being interviewed or questioned during the "investigation ". It also ends any responsibility that the AFL have in the manner, which is probably a positive for them seeing as it was such a circus. |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
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I don't think it will. At the end of the day, this will be a case of disgruntled persons rewriting what was said. I've seen it before in the workplace when someone is told they aren't good enough, then suddenly, they magically reinterpret things that were said to them to support their view that they have been persecuted.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I'm as surprised as anyone that this was resolved so ostensibly smoothly and without any consequences for the accused – not even an apology. It does make you wonder what exactly went on behind the scenes, but otherwise this is as good an exoneration as Clarkson and Fagan could have hoped.
I wonder if we'll see Clarkson back this weekend now this is over.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| What'sinaname wrote: | | I don't think it will. At the end of the day, this will be a case of disgruntled persons rewriting what was said. I've seen it before in the workplace when someone is told they aren't good enough, then suddenly, they magically reinterpret things that were said to them to support their view that they have been persecuted. |
Well, your interpretation of what happened may well be right, but it is still not clearly known whether this was the situation as you describe it.
The investigative panel is not going to release any report on how they arrived at their conclusions, or if in fact, they had any conclusions. All Gil had to say was that they endorsed the AFL's decision to call it quits on their investigation. The AFL then decided to wrap it all up with no actions to be taken with regard to either "defendants" or "complainants". They can always state that they tried to have the situation resolved, which I think is the most important aspect for them as far as their credibility goes. Yep, a cynical attitude on my behalf. I accept that.
The complainants also agreed for the investigation to cease apparently. We don't know whether this was because they realized it was a complete farce or whether they felt that they would get better justice elsewhere or because they accepted that they had overly embellished what happened.
Who knows at present? Except what is clear is that the AFL successfully closes the episode without any ramifications for them or tough decisions having to be made by them, despite them being the governors of the game.
It will be interesting to see what transpires in the future. .....if anything. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Watched McLachlan’s press conference on AFL 360, and the narrative I take away from it is that the complainants are victims, the accused are victims, but that the real villain of the piece is the Hawthorn Football Club for letting the story come out in the way it did, and that they will be the only ones to face any consequences out of this.
That seems wrong on a number of levels; the phrase that most immediately comes to mind is "shooting the messenger". Justice isn’t served by going after leakers or obsessing over the niceties of how testimony is made public.
The fact is that the testimony was given and that the complainants stood by it. The panel may have found against them (though it seems more accurate to say that everyone mutually agreed to walk away), but the AFL’s priorities here don’t seem to be aligning with their messaging about taking racism seriously. It seems that PR comes first, and I don’t think it’s uncharitable of me to interpret McLachlan’s words towards the end of the press conference as expressing a preference for the original report to have been suppressed and only ever released in sanitised form. That’s not putting justice first.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Wed May 31, 2023 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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23 YIPPEE!!!
YIPPEE 23!!!
Joined: 24 Jul 2019
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hawthorn football club are a disgrace and should be shamed of it.
Should face full penalties.
Hawthorn football club have disgraced them selves. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | Absolutely. Respect should be a given.
I bet your daughter treats all her students with the same level of respect, but I'll also bet she recognises which ones need something extra or different because of their background. |
She said you’re correct!
As for the saga, I too found the accusations hard to swallow, and have to wonder if it a revision of history and disgruntled employees.
In saying that I’d also expect that there was a level of racism in the club, but I doubt it was much worse than in any other sector of society, or any other club.
Times have changed, acceptance of certain behaviours have changed. Who doesn’t have a shameful comment in their history?
The conference was a typical protect itself AFL speech, means nothing.
Lots of sorrys have been said, change has come, time to move forward.
Meanwhile in the playground kids call each other [snip]. Again, where are the parents?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | As for the saga, I too found the accusations hard to swallow, and have to wonder if it a revision of history and disgruntled employees.
In saying that I’d also expect that there was a level of racism in the club, but I doubt it was much worse than in any other sector of society, or any other club.
Times have changed, acceptance of certain behaviours have changed. Who doesn’t have a shameful comment in their history?
The conference was a typical protect itself AFL speech, means nothing.
Lots of sorrys have been said, change has come, time to move forward. |
So the takeaway is that it's probably not true, and even if it was it probably wasn't that bad and anyway it was a long time ago (all of, like, ten years). Sorry TP, but that's a really poor comment on all fronts. But I'm not going after you specifically; I've seen stuff like this everywhere on social media.
For the record, no apologies have been given – not by the people who were accused of actually doing any of this, at any rate. I can understand defending Clarkson, Fagan and Burt's innocence, particularly now that the process has cleared them, but please don't give us this kind of wishy-washy apologism on the allegations themselves. If we think that what was reported wasn't all that bad – about a football club stepping into its employees' lives, leaning on them to break up relationships, end pregnancies and cut off contact with their families, all for the sake of sporting success – then I'm afraid we've lost all ethical compass. And it makes it a lot easier to understand how systemic injustices like the Stolen Generations can occur and be shrugged off by so many people: if those with power do something, it's probably right.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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I didn't interpret TP's comments like that at all.
IMO, What she is saying is that it's likely a revision of history.
If there was racism, it was likely much less than what we would see in general society at the time as clubs have moved more quickly on racism than the general public have.
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Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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