Aboriginal Deaths in Custody

[watt price tully]

This is beyond shocking on so many levels:

1. Government / bail policy

The state Lib opposition jumped up & down re v bail and the Bouke Street Murders aided and abetted by the media.
The state government reacts by making a one law fits all so it can neutralise any perception that it might be soft on crime.

2. Interpretation of the policy / Bail laws and how it affects women especially aboriginal women for low grade offences.

3. The negligence of the Dr especially and other staff.

This is so sad and reflects the continuing racism affecting First Nations people.

It’s sickening it’s that bad.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jan/30/inquest-veronica-nelson-death-urges-overhaul-victoria-bail-laws

[stui magpie]

I assume you're talking about Veronica Nelson? I don't click on Guardian links.

1. Don't try to blame the Liberals for Labor legislation. The Bail changes came into place after that dipshit Gargazoulas or whatever went manic in Bourke St, so the government made a typical knee jerk response.

2. I agree completely that it was a shitful situation, reminiscent of the 80's when the cops could beat you up, throw you in the drunk tank for 4 hours with no medical attention, then send you on your way.

Hopefully some changes are made, but I don't expect any recognition of accountability from this Government, that not how they work.


https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/veronica-nelson-inquest-findings-delivered-coroner-to-call-for-sweeping-bail-changes-20230129-p5cgbq.html

[What'sinaname]

If she had been granted bail, would she not have just died outside of prison? Last I checked, being in prison doesn't cause you to projectile vomit.

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[Skids]

In 2021–22, there were 106 deaths in custody: 84 in prison custody and 22 in police custody or custody-related operations. In total, there were 24 Indigenous deaths and 81 non-Indigenous deaths in custody and one death of a person whose Indigenous status was unknown.

https://apo.org.au/subject/99605

70% of prisoners in Australia are non-Indigenous, yet they make up 80% of the deaths in custody... white lives don't matter?

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/crime-and-justice/prisoners-australia/latest-release

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[Skids]

Your typical, I'm always right, everybody else is an 'unthinking type'.
You're so predictable it's not funny.

If you looked at the statistics on the links I provided, you'd see your statement - It is beyond dispute that the types of laws First Nations People are being "locked up for are related to things like public drunkenness etc", you'd find that almost 50% of charges related to acts of violence and sexual attacks.

But anyway, I'm not getting into your little, I'm always right conversations.

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[stui magpie]

^

Just 2 points on that.

1. Skids lives in Perth with a large First Nations population and has lived experiences we don't get in Melbourne

2. Skids has First Nations family members so the right wing nutter AKA racist playbook has no traction.

[watt price tully]

[stui magpie]

You can choose to attach labels to someones vocabulary, it doesn't make you correct.

[David]

Firstly, as noted above, this is entirely on Andrews and his government. And while we can all be wise in hindsight, my recollection is that there were very few voices raised in opposition to these bail "reform" laws at the time – mostly legal associations, Liberty Victoria and the Greens.

That doesn't get anyone else off the hook, but it's at least a reminder that "tough-on-crime" policy is always easy to enact, is always politically difficult to stand against, and pretty much always has negative consequences. It'd be nice if we could learn from the past and stop stepping on this particular rake.

As for the question of race, one can only admire Indigenous groups for making Indigenous deaths in custody an issue and putting it on the agenda. If nobody's speaking up for white prisoners in the same situation, then that's deeply shameful, and a major indictment on the rest of us.

The ultimate lesson from this should, in fact, be, that "all lives matter"; but when right-wingers use that slogan, or selectively quoted statistics about white prisoners to rebut Indigenous activists, the real message being conveyed is "no lives matter" – and certainly not those of the poor, the mentally ill or the substance-addicted, all of which groups are massively overrepresented in prison populations.

[pietillidie]

^Indeed. Some people need to get a grip on reality. Irritation is not a sound basis for decision making full stop, let alone in serious matters of morality and consequence.

What sort of undeveloped, pea-sized brain makes serious decisions that way? "But, but, they annoy me". No matter how much someone annoys you, even if they're somewhat misguided or have their own bothersome obsessions, the obvious, plain-as-day suffering of people is not a childish internet game nor serious basis for outrage and affront.

I can recall people being so irritated by Muslims they supported the invading Iraq and by extension the wrecking of an entire region, killing hundreds and thousands of people, creating millions of refugees, and spending trillions of dollars doing so. Remember the people on here who lost so much perspective, they even thought Muslims were taking over the world, despite most of the world, including the wealthy world with the vast portion of the globe's power and military force, not being Muslim. "But, but, Halal burgers really get on my goat".

Greens and teenagers shouting slogans annoy me, so let's pay trillions in damages for not acting on global warming and let species after species vanish for the hell of it. Unions annoy me, so let's double the generational poverty rate and crime rate, costing billions to control and wrecking millions of more futures. Young people annoy me, so let's not care if they can never afford a house and therefore have no incentive to save, work hard and make sensible decisions. Uni students annoy me, so let's charge them more, even if it increases high-demand skills shortages, damaging national competitiveness. Muslims annoy me, so let's control what people wear.

The left has its own, of course. Business annoys me, so let's cripple it so it can't compete internationally, reducing national income. The wealthy annoy me, so let's reduce the ability for capital to move to new areas of investment need quickly, crippling innovation. And while we're at it, let's nationalise highly competitive industries like auto manufacturing. The US annoys me, so let's get rid of the ANZUS treaty and become a tiny sitting duck. The EU annoys me because they're neoliberal, so let's support Brexit and lose billions upon billions of dollars for the hell of it. Warmongers annoy me, so let's ruin the remembrance of those who died in war. Military companies annoy me, so let's not update our defensive capabilities. Climate denialists annoy me, so let's ban driving even though urban sprawl means it will take hours for most people to get anywhere.

So, when I look at this discussion I think: Imagine being so morally detached and unthinking, that people who support a tiny, powerless minority irritate you enough to make it an issue worth more than a second's thought. A fly in the kitchen is not a nest of death adders in the kitchen, FFS.

The same people are often completely unmoved by incredibly serious things, like the mentally ill being raped, tortured and abused in hidden, unaccountable, psychopathic criminal training camps called prisons, that cost billions only to grow crime and further mental illness that then cost even more billions.

You can't lose perspective like that and expect to make good decisions on anything.

The trivial irritation at the people who support that tiny powerless minority like first peoples, even if those supporters are misguided some of the time, even drives millions of people to vote for completely idiotic platforms and incompetent leaders in support of an entire party, costing still more billions.

And that's how a lot of the population goes through life making important decisions as individuals and citizens. Naturally, they then moan day and night about the resultant problems and decline, as if their lack of perspective and discipline had nothing to do with it.

Basically, we're becoming nations of half-witted, reactionary idiots entirely lacking in independent thought and disciplined judgement. Nothing matters more to us than someone irritating us on Twitter. We are becoming a culture of utter losers, much to the joy of the Putins and Xis of the world.

Now there's international competition, this is becoming extremely costly. It's easy to make bad decisions and still do well when the rest of the world is even worse off, mired in impoverished chaos, as was the case in the 'glorious' 1960s-1980s of dumb imagination.

I suspect this is also why so many clueless fools look back fondly at the past: we might have been irrational halfwits and moral gnats, but the rest of the world was even worse, so we could get away with it and still feel superior at the same time. Too bad everyone else was dying of disease, being viciously oppressed and killed, of course. I bet a lot of moral geniuses still secretly prefer this to actually making better decisions and competing at a higher level in a better world overall.

That's what the good old days were: our dimwittedness, poor judgement and moral disgrace, but with even worse competition, making us relatively 'enlightened', in a pitiful sort of way. (The rest of it is just mistaking the freedom of childhood and Disney scripts with the responsibility of adulthood - for those lucky enough not to have been abused or downtrodden as children back then).

As I always say, competition is only as good as the quality of the competition in which you're playing. A hell of a lot of people are competing in the internet kindergarten sand pit, confusing childish irritations with actual, serious, consequential, life-changing decisions.

[David]

Meanwhile, in Queensland:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/feb/27/strip-searches-of-children-among-claims-made-by-queensland-watch-house-whistleblower

This is the kind of cruelty and dehumanisation that jails breed. Hopefully regulations will be strengthened and these abusive police officers will be weeded out, but nothing will fundamentally change for the better until reform and rehabilitation become the no. 1 priority – and, unfortunately, the Queensland government is moving in the exact opposite direction with their decision to contravene their own human rights act in order to give minors harsher sentences.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/qld-to-bypass-human-rights-laws-in-youth-crime-crackdown-20230221-p5cm9v.html