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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| nomadjack wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Those arguing for a Treaty first should surely be able to see that getting The Voice established first is the most meaningful way of doing it. That would enable the voices of indigenous people chosen by indigenous people to frame the content rather than a few self appointed activists. |
That's generally my take, but there is also a very real risk (I'd actually say a probability) that it will mean a treaty gets put on the backburner. in that sense, I understand why there is significant opposition in parts of the Indigenous community. |
Opposing it for that reason seems a high-risk bet in its own right, I reckon. Unlike with same-sex marriage, where the momentum was unstoppable and it was clear that civil unions were only being presented as an SSM-lite option, I don't know if public enthusiasm for Indigenous sovereignty is strong enough for a treaty-or-nothing gambit to pay off. I think it's probably more a recipe for Indigenous self-determination to be put back in the too-hard basket indefinitely. It's doubtful there'd ever be another referendum in the foreseeable future, for one, which would limit the scope considerably.
The Voice definitely presents as being a bit of a toothless tiger. But at least it creates a platform for grassroots decision-making, and offers the prospect of unified policy agendas to coalesce around. Treaty is something fundamentally different – and, of course, something that the Voice itself can be used to advocate for.
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Last edited by David on Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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To do the Treaty will take time and lots of consultation which the Voice can certainly add to, in the meantime though the Voice can advocate for more urgent issues such as the state of remote communities, health, education and youth in detention.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
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So Dutton has announced that the Liberals won't support Albo's version of the voice.
Really disappointing. Yeah he had a majority of MP's against it (which is an issue in it's own right, the party badly needs an enema) so he had limited choices, but still.
I hope it still gets up.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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KenH
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| stui magpie wrote: | So Dutton has announced that the Liberals won't support Albo's version of the voice.
Really disappointing. Yeah he had a majority of MP's against it (which is an issue in it's own right, the party badly needs an enema) so he had limited choices, but still.
I hope it still gets up. |
Very disappointing I really can't see this getting up now it was always going to be hard but with the Libs on the No campaign I can't see how this gets through.
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Some are of the view that Dutton and the Liberals are so on the nose right now that their opposition will help rather than hinder the "yes" case, which I think there's some sense to. I guess we'll see how it pans out.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | So Dutton has announced that the Liberals won't support Albo's version of the voice.
Really disappointing. Yeah he had a majority of MP's against it (which is an issue in it's own right, the party badly needs an enema) so he had limited choices, but still.
I hope it still gets up. |
Me too, however I listened to his speech on it twice and he has so every valid points. It’s like having three parties having a say on decisions that one party didn’t get voted in For.
It needs rewording, because godknow people love to take advantage.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
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I think Albo is wedged on the wording after all the consultation with various Indigenous groups to finalise it.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| KenH wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | So Dutton has announced that the Liberals won't support Albo's version of the voice.
Really disappointing. Yeah he had a majority of MP's against it (which is an issue in it's own right, the party badly needs an enema) so he had limited choices, but still.
I hope it still gets up. |
Very disappointing I really can't see this getting up now it was always going to be hard but with the Libs on the No campaign I can't see how this gets through. |
It should get up in every State and Territory that matters. We can always donate QLD to Indonesia.
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Donating QLD to Indonesia?  That would work well- NOT. FNQ is a different state to southern QLD.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Donating QLD to Indonesia? That would work well- NOT. FNQ is a different state to southern QLD. |
Given Christiansen’s many tax payer funded trips to Manila it migh have been a reference to the Phillipines 😉
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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This is certainly an own goal by Dutton. If the Voice gets up the Libs and Dutton will be seen as out of touch and irrelevant.
If the vote loses Dutton and the Libs will be blamed.
He could have just had no position as it were and make it a conscience vote for all (shadow cabinet) and the rest.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I think the realpolitik of this is that the referendum failing will be a major setback for Albanese and, by extension (in part because they're now the party of opposition, not government, and thus have no actual responsibility over it), a win for Dutton.
Let's not forget that the republic referendum failing didn't hurt Howard at all. He was open about not wanting it to get up, and he won; it bolstered the aura that he was firmly in charge and that those against him (Labor, the Greens, Democrats and republicans like Malcolm Turnbull) were whiny losers. There's a reason why he was PM so long, and it certainly – as we should all know full well by now – had nothing to do with good policy.
But where I agree with the above is that if it does get up despite Dutton's opposition, that will be a huge (further) blow for the Liberals and play into the sense of them being left behind by modern Australia. So it's a high-wire act, for sure. But on purely cynical political terms, it probably made far more sense for him to try to sabotage it rather than offering some wishy-washy support and getting no credit if it passed (or political benefit if it didn't).
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Yes and no. Yes it's a loss for Albo if it doesn't get up, but Dutton doesn't exactly win very much. The people who already dislike him just have another reason but there will be a number of Liberal voters who agree with the Yes vote and won't be happy that he's been seen to have sabotaged it.
So if a "Win" means futher diluting an already diminishing support base, to basically keep faith with most of his MP's, then it's a win but not exactly a great one. He's getting some bad advice.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Pretty classy from leeser and from Dutton.
The Libs backbench has a conscience vote, so he resigned from the front bench to vote yes and Dutton actually praised him. Alternate universe stuff.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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