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Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2024 1:36 pm
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It's good to see many countries allowing Ukraine to send their provided missile etc onto Russian Soil. Russian Civilians need to feel the pain just like Ukranians. Fighting an invasion with your hands tied behind your back isn't easy. The US Abrams tank has failed, while the Bradbury has succeeded. The US Republicans have allowed Putin's army to gain even more ground with their delaying tactics.
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Pi Gemini



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2024 10:02 pm
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^
Lol the "Bradbury" Laughing
It called a Bradley Fighting Vehicle (BFV) ; its essentially the Swiss army knife vehicle of the modern battlefield. The Abrams MBT (main battle Tank) is more of a specialised spearhead assault system used in combined arms operations, something neither side can really do at the moment, tanks being a bit of a failure on both sides at the moment.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2024 6:21 pm
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If you have time, watch the Movie "Pentagon Wars". It is about the start of building the Bradbury. We use this as an example in Defence of what not to do.

The European Tanks are way better for the Ukraine war. Mind you Drones have become the go-to weapon. Missiles landing on Russian soil and killing civilians can have an impact, 71% of the Population supports the war as they aren't feeling any pain.
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2024 6:54 pm
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Culprit wrote:
It's good to see many countries allowing Ukraine to send their provided missile etc onto Russian Soil. Russian Civilians need to feel the pain just like Ukranians. Fighting an invasion with your hands tied behind your back isn't easy. The US Abrams tank has failed, while the Bradbury has succeeded. The US Republicans have allowed Putin's army to gain even more ground with their delaying tactics.

Are you gunning for third world war?
Do you not consider the possibility that Russia might perceive this as an attack by NATO countries on its territory and counter with a strike on theirs?
What kind of logic is it to hope that innocent Russian civilians die because innocent Ukrainian civilians have? By the way, neither the Russian nor the Ukrainian government cares about how many soldiers they send to their deaths

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2024 7:22 pm
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Ukraine firing on Russia is not a 3rd world war. Putin can huff and puff all he likes but if Putin fires a Nuke on a NATO country he gets 100 back. He may fire more back but then gets more and the world is over. Ukraine can't fight a war with its hands tied behind it's back and Ukraine is already firing back into Russian territory, the new missiles mean it can go deeper. Russia cannot be allowed to take Ukraine.
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2024 7:32 pm
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Culprit wrote:
Ukraine firing on Russia is not a 3rd world war. Putin can huff and puff all he likes but if Putin fires a Nuke on a NATO country he gets 100 back. He may fire more back but then gets more and the world is over. Ukraine can't fight a war with its hands tied behind it's back and Ukraine is already firing back into Russian territory, the new missiles mean it can go deeper. Russia cannot be allowed to take Ukraine.

Ukraine can't win the war full stop.
The only way the war can continue for much longer is if NATO assists Ukraine to strike Russia, both with NATO weapons and finally with NATO troops. With half a million men dead, Zelensky has almost run out of cannon fodder. The assumption that Putin will never strike back because it would cause WW3 is exactly the false calculation that leads to world war. Why do you remove the possiblity that Putin might think the same thing? Putin might launch a conventional strike on Britain, to retaliate for allowing Zelensky to fire British missiles into Russia. His assumption would be that neither the US nor Britain would retaliate, because it would lead to World War 3.
Unfortunately, you haven't grasped the incredible danger in this situation.

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David Libra

to wish impossible things


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2024 9:16 pm
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I definitely don't see much benefit in opening up a front in Russian territory. The idea of exercising leverage to force Russia's hand might make sense theoretically, but there's practically none available here because Putin is under little if any domestic pressure. Also, everyone understands that hitting Russian villages serves no tactical purpose given Ukraine's war is purely defensive and aimed at retaining / winning back territory â€" so at best it achieves nothing and at worst escalates or prolongs the conflict.

I don't see this war being resolved anywhere but the negotiating table.

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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:19 am
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no such negotiating table exists.
NATO has made clear that it seeks the "strategic defeat of Russia".

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2024 8:39 am
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The US has permitted the use of its weapons on Russia for Military Targets.
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2024 8:38 pm
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Culprit wrote:
The US has permitted the use of its weapons on Russia for Military Targets.


During the Cold War, the US would never have dared to carry out a strike on Russian territory - even with conventional weapons - whatever the target (military or otherwise). The reason was that, at the time, US policy makers assumed that such a strike might lead the Soviet government to retaliate - either with conventional or nuclear weapons - quickly spiralling into nuclear Armageddon.
Now, the US tells the Zelensky government it is free to strike targets on Russian territory with US weaponry. No doubt there are US trainers in Ukraine right now, teaching Ukrainian military personnel how to use these weapons to target locations within Russia.
In other words, the Biden government has crossed every line that any US administration during the Cold War would not dare to cross.
Biden is assuming that he is free to carry out whatever provocations against Russia he feels like, because Putin will never dare respond.
How does the Biden government know that Putin will never dare respond? If the Putin government feels that it faces an existential threat, how can Biden be sure that it will not retaliate? Maybe, just maybe, the Putin government will make the same assumption as Biden: it will retaliate, and the n the US will dare not go further, because to do so would risk a nuclear Armageddon. And so the escalation continues...to third world war.
At present, the only reason that Russia has not yet retaliated is because Putin is (slightly) less insane than Biden.

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:59 pm
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^It's astonishing watching you cast Palestinians as worthy victims in one thread, and Ukrainians as unworthy victims in another thread. You don't say it outright, you just don't give a toss about them, brushing them aside as you rush to parrot Putin's grievances and maintain your Great Satan obsession.

Are you sure Manufacturing Consent wasn't talking about anyone who filters, selects and frames information to suit their pre-existing desires, including you? You remind of the American Evangelicals who read the Gospels day and night yet still fail to notice that the Pharisees are the main antagonists, and they're the Pharisees.

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What'sinaname Libra



Joined: 29 May 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:58 am
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Are you really astonished? Given their stance on these issues, I'd say MTTM is a socialist / communist, or at the very least, an anti-capitalist.

There's nothing wrong with that. We all are free to be who we want to be.

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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 9:59 pm
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pietillidie wrote:
^It's astonishing watching you cast Palestinians as worthy victims in one thread, and Ukrainians as unworthy victims in another thread. You don't say it outright, you just don't give a toss about them, brushing them aside as you rush to parrot Putin's grievances and maintain your Great Satan obsession.

Are you sure Manufacturing Consent wasn't talking about anyone who filters, selects and frames information to suit their pre-existing desires, including you? You remind of the American Evangelicals who read the Gospels day and night yet still fail to notice that the Pharisees are the main antagonists, and they're the Pharisees.


Clearly you have not understood anything of what I have written.

I have always made clear my complete opposition to Putin, and my complete anger and opposition to the fact that the young men (and not so young men) of Ukraine are being sent to the slaughter house.
The point is, that they are being sent to the slaughter house by Zelensky, on behalf of US/NATO imperialism, while the young men of Russia are being sent to the slaughter house by Putin.
Is it so hard to understand that one can be opposed to both
Putin and Zelensky?

To claim that I "parrot Putin's grievances " is defamatory.
You need to actually read what I write, and then take a moment to think about it, before you resort to outright slander.

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Last edited by Magpietothemax on Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Magpietothemax Taurus

magpietothemax


Joined: 27 Apr 2013


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 10:03 pm
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What'sinaname wrote:
Are you really astonished? Given their stance on these issues, I'd say MTTM is a socialist / communist, or at the very least, an anti-capitalist.

There's nothing wrong with that. We all are free to be who we want to be.


Never thought I would say this, but WIAN, you have understood what I have written far more than PTID.

While i oppose everything you write, in this instance you have shown far more political perception than our self appointed moral and political authority, PTID

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2024 12:33 am
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What'sinaname wrote:
Are you really astonished? Given their stance on these issues, I'd say MTTM is a socialist / communist, or at the very least, an anti-capitalist.

There's nothing wrong with that. We all are free to be who we want to be.

I don't assess the merits of what someone says on the basis of their supposed branding and team colours. That's what footy's for.

Needless to say, under your new utopian mores, murderous nutcases are also free to be what they want. Oppressive kleptocrats? Just more people freely being what they want. Now we've solved the fundamental moral problem, let's hit the dance floor and boogie!

Or is only the adored Putin, that ideal father figure of Machiavellians and those who can't stand on their own two feet, allowed to be what he wants? To hell with Ukrainians; let's bask in Vlad the Great's self-satisfaction!

There is nothing odd about your fundamentalist self aligning with M2M's fundamentalist self, despite it greatly limiting you both. The rest of us are searching for adult solutions that allow as many people as possible to thrive, yet keep bumping into this sort of rot in between for some reason.

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