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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | geezus, that last comment is a leap isn't it?
Unions already have a big role in Hollywood. Lets wait and see what any inquest says, and calling the armourer a "nepotism hire" is also a stretch isn't it?
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the missus this morning?  |
I guess the thing with nepotism hires is that you can always argue that they were chosen on merit and coincidentally just happen to be the son/daughter of someone famous, a work colleague or your mate. In this case, we have someone working on just her second production (how many early-twentysomething crew members just starting out in the industry get work on an Alec Baldwin film if they don't have serious Hollywood connections?), who has been described anecdotally by other crew working on the film as being "very green", and who had apparently already made a serious stuff-up on her only other film (namely, giving an unchecked gun to a child). I don't think it's a stretch to conclude that she was not the best or most qualified person for that job, and that a more ethical hiring system would not be giving her the position over someone without the name connection.
As for the last comment, there are reports that many of the people working on set that day were non-union members (i.e. "scabs", in the old parlance) who were brought on after other crew members resigned over pretty serious labour issues (including 17-hour working days and lack of accommodation near the shoot). The problem isn't that unions don't exist in Hollywood – they do have a big role there, as you say – it's that in this case the union seemingly wasn't able to wield sufficient power, and haven't been able to win sufficiently strong regulations more generally, to stop some pretty serious malpractice that culminated in an entirely avoidable death.
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I think the point is, from what I've read, the regulations are all already in place, they just potentially haven't followed them.
A low budget movie where the producer is also the star, isn't going to be hiring the best crew money can buy, apart from that one incident I've read positive reports on her work in the first movie. Who's to say she wasn't the best available at the time?
| Quote: | | “Hollywood is mourning for sure, and it’s sending reverberations through the entire film community but acutely in the prop world, and very acutely through the armor ranks, of which there’s only 100 or 200 of us at all in the industry,” said Dutch Merrick, a property master and past president of IATSE Local 44 Property Craftspersons. |
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-halyna-hutchins-alec-baldwin-propmasters-armorers-1235096221/
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It's possible, but keep in mind that film shoots only usually take around 4-8 weeks, so it's likely that there are only a max of about 50 or so Hollywood films being made at any one time (that's my ballpark estimate; someone else may be able to come up with a more precise figure) – and needless to say only a minority of those films (action movies, westerns, some thrillers, some sci-fi films) feature weaponry and thus will require an armourer. So while 100-200 sounds like a small number, I think it's reasonable to assume that these technicians work sporadically and that a majority of them will be out of work at any given time.
Edit: someone has actually done a statistical breakdown, and the answer is that at most 10–15% of films released in the US (of the around 700 that are released each year, only 100 of which are Hollywood productions) have an armourer in the crew:
https://stephenfollows.com/what-types-of-movies-hire-an-armourer/
https://stephenfollows.com/how-many-films-are-released-each-year/
Also, here's an interesting article on safety processes on set from a couple of years ago:
https://ascmag.com/blog/filmmakers-forum/filming-with-firearms
| Quote: | The best part of a career in film is the opportunity to work with so many amazingly talented actors and cinematographers. One of the highlights was teaming with cinematographer James Glennon, ASC and actor Robin Williams on the 2005 film The Big White. During shooting, I was fortunate to become friends with both — and I quickly found out that beneath the humor, Robin Williams never missed a detail.
Many of our scenes involved a revolver. Every day I would show him the empty firearm, load six dummy cartridges into the chambers so it looked fully loaded to camera, and demonstrate that it was completely safe by pointing it in a safe direction and pulling the trigger eight times.
Over the course of two months, he silently observed that I always pulled the trigger exactly eight clicks — two more than necessary for the revolver’s six chambers. Then, on our final day, as I was preparing for our last scene together, Robin asked me why I always pulled the trigger eight times. I told him my personal reason: “The first six are for you, the seventh one is for me, and the eighth one is for Brandon Lee.” The very talented James Glennon, also a skilled person with a firearm, nodded his head in silent agreement.
In the film business, lessons are sometimes learned the hard way. But the most important lesson I ever learned was from my very first day on the job: I don’t work with guns. I work with people
I’m fortunate to be able to collaborate with so many talented people doing such amazing work. I never forget that I’m working with friends and colleagues whom I need to keep safe. I never forget that if an actor makes a mistake, they get another take, but if a weapons handler makes a mistake, it will make headlines in the morning. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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What about TV shows and stage productions that use firearms that also require armourers?
https://www.careersinfilm.com/armorer/
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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A lot of effort being put into investigating this particular incident over there. It's a kind of pathetic myopia that has them worrying about gun recklessness or negligence (as the case may be) in this isolated case, when thousands of people are deliberately killed by firearms there, every year.
I suppose attending to this would be a kind of gun control, of sorts, in a way. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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That’s a good point!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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It’s getting a lot of media attention because of the peculiar circumstances and the involvement of a big celebrity in Baldwin, but otherwise I’m not aware of whether the investigation is taking up more police resources than a regular gun homicide would.
I do appreciate the irony that this one incident will probably lead to much more significant change in the film industry than mass killings have led to in American society more broadly. That will signify the dysfunction of the latter rather than any overreaction in the former context, one suspects, but we all know by now about America’s inability to even halfway deal with its gun problem.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Kind of Trumpism in a nutshell, that one – getting one over on the people they despise. Trump Jr is a particularly small and petty character, so this is fairly in keeping for him.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Baldwin has a pretty yukky past too, not the kid comment that was nothing!
but yeah, i feel for him, how do you get over that
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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This interview with a camera operator really highlights what an OHS disaster that film set was.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/alec-baldwin-rust-shooting-crew-member-interview-safety-1235043092/
It does sound like Baldwin is off the hook, though (it appears he had little say in the day-to-day financial decisions as executive producer – that's a credit that basically means your name is on the film and little else – though one does wonder if, given his position, he could have stood up for the crew and pushed back against what was being done by those taking a more hands-on role on the production).
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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not really shes cashing in in sue crazy town, thats all
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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You can sue someone in America for just about Anything
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| David wrote: | | Kind of Trumpism in a nutshell, that one – getting one over on the people they despise. Trump Jr is a particularly small and petty character, so this is fairly in keeping for him. |
I agree. However I have often wondered why more of the Trump family members are not like Mary Trump and criticise him for shaming the family name? Maybe they haven’t got the balls or maybe the Trump name is already mud 🙄
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