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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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Post subject: Personal behaviour vs employment | |
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We've had a few discussions here about how whether or not what someone does in their private life should impact their employment. I think it's fair to say that David and I have been on opposite sides.
The "Me too" movement has been an interesting scenario where the insinuation of impropriety via social media, with no proof or legal proceedings has been enough to impact careers, in some case severely.
This is an interesting one. Israel Follau is quite religious, borderline fundamentalist. He considers homosexuality a sin according to the bible which is probably technically correct, but puts him on the same page as fundamentalist Christians and most Muslims. Opposite to general societies views.
He recently put a post on his personal Instagram account saying that a group of people will go to hell unless they repent and find Jesus.
The group was
Drunks
Adulterers
Liars
Homosexuals
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters
(I messed up the order, not deliberately)
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rugby-union/folau-teammates-like-anti-gay-post-as-sponsor-qantas-backs-ra-action-20190411-p51d6b.html
Seems a fair proportion of Nicks is going to hell
He plays Rugby Union. The main sponsor of Rugby Australia is Qantas, who's CEO is gay. It seems as though RA is about to tear up Folau's contract and sack him for the comments.
On one hand I think that's fair enough, he was warned about this previously. believe what you want but don't put it out there.He's upset the major sponsor and got a lot of people baying for his blood so RA needs to act for their own reputation.
On the other hand, I'm interested in other opinions, particularly David's.
Does that qualify as hate speech? If so, is Rowan Atkinson's devil skit hate speech?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrwIs10XvKA
Should RA issue a statement saying that Folau's opinions do not reflect those of RA but they support his right to hold those opinions or should they sack him?
Should the employer butt out of their employees personal life or, does this impact the employer too much?
Thoughts? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: Thailand
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I,ve said it before. Any dickhead who uses twitter to belittle others deserves to be sacked. Nobody makes you use it. And this from a bloke who slutted himself around every footy code going. Footballers in particular should keep the thing turned off, and cricketers whose name is Shane, _________________ Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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I support Folau saying whatever the damn well he pleases.
I also think that if the ARU has a contract with Folau and, if he is in breach of that contract, they have the right to tear it up. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I’m not going to say anything surprising, Stui – of course I think Folau has a right to express his personal religious views, and that Rugby Australia has no right to be policing what he says (and neither should they have had the right to stipulate anything of the sort in his contract, if indeed they have). It’s a gross overstep on their part. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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I reckon hell is going to be great, what, with all the hookers and partying going on.... I meet the criteria in quite a few of his 'sinners' list... the last one, I don't even know what that is... but I'll give it a shake. |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: Thailand
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Kkids yes you do if ever you called Daicos a god. And yes I will be there and will safe you a seat between the bar and the stripper pole. I dare say a doobee or 2 will be available.
If say Bachar Houli tweeted that all jews should be killed how long do you think he would be employed at Richmond. Folau was warned. I think he is a Mormon so can now piss off and do his mission work.
Waiting to see Ian Roberts on this subject. _________________ Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008 Location: work
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Fornicators??
We're all f**ked.
Pardon the pun |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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David wrote: | I’m not going to say anything surprising, Stui – of course I think Folau has a right to express his personal religious views, and that Rugby Australia has no right to be policing what he says (and neither should they have had the right to stipulate anything of the sort in his contract, if indeed they have). It’s a gross overstep on their part. |
That's one issue, but I think it's overshadowed by the elephant in the room, namely whether religion and its adherents have a right to vilify people, and incite hatred of them and violence against them, by condemning them to hell and destruction.
It doesn't matter that the doctrine itself is nonsense or that the bigotry is mediated by 'god'; enough people believe in a 'hell', or accept it as a guiding metaphor, for it to be genuinely threatening. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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ronrat wrote: | I,ve said it before. Any dickhead who uses twitter to belittle others deserves to be sacked. Nobody makes you use it. And this from a bloke who slutted himself around every footy code going. Footballers in particular should keep the thing turned off, and cricketers whose name is Shane, |
It certainly brings out the worst in people.
Should he be sacked for it? No but I’m sure they will find a way to punish him! You don’t insult so loudly and publicly everyone from the CEO down and walk away scot free.
In saying that if there is a claus in his contract and he broke it, well stuff him, he would be really dumb to give up such a lucrative job for that outburst! Let’s notforget he signed the contract. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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so if he wins and plays again, is he then fodder for what everyone else may think of him? since he can say what he likes about anything and everything, surely he should have to cop it too? or because he took the cowards way of generalising, his comments are not bullying? _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I don't oppose the criminalisation of hate speech, and if his Tweets are seen to constitute it then I'm happy for him to be pursued through legal avenues.
I just categorically reject the notion that his employer should have any right to sanction or terminate him over this, because that means that they think they owned him – that anything he did in his personal life over the course of his employment existed within their purview. And if they win the case, then that means that, perhaps, under the law, they're not wrong about that. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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David wrote: | I don't oppose the criminalisation of hate speech, and if his Tweets are seen to constitute it then I'm happy for him to be pursued through legal avenues.
I just categorically reject the notion that his employer should have any right to sanction or terminate him over this, because that means that they think they owned him – that anything he did in his personal life over the course of his employment existed within their purview. And if they win the case, then that means that, perhaps, under the law, they're not wrong about that. |
ah ok, thats a fair point. they dont own him.
unless of course there is a clause in his contract thats effectively is a gag rule on him. and if there is and he signed it, well he really cant complain. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Maybe he wants out of his contract to go back to League, wouldn't be the first person to get purposefully fired to get out of an ironclad exclusive employment contract. |
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