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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Post subject: Grundy's turnovers |  |
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<Discussion split from the Post Match thread for the Port Adelaide game. Thanks, BBMods>
Grundy has the most turnovers that lead to opposition scoring shots for a Collingwood non-defender. (Obviously conceding scores from turnover is an occupational hazard of being a defender.)
Overall at Collingwood (with defenders included), Grundy is equal-3rd worst in turnovers conceding an oppo scoring shot. He shares that placing with Jack Madgen.
Grundy is responsible for about 7% of all opposition scoring shots started by turnovers. He commences only about 3% of all Collingwood scoring chains.
We can compare this to Collingwood's best player, Darcy Moore -- who does have the disadvantage in these stats of being a defender. Moore is responsible for under 2% of all opposition scoring shots started by turnovers. He commences almost 8% of all Collingwood scoring chains. |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Post subject: Re: Grundy's turnovers | |
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| K wrote: |
Grundy is responsible for about 7% of all opposition scoring shots started by turnovers. He commences only about 3% of all Collingwood scoring chains.
We can compare this to Collingwood's best player, Darcy Moore -- who does have the disadvantage in these stats of being a defender. Moore is responsible for under 2% of all opposition scoring shots started by turnovers. He commences almost 8% of all Collingwood scoring chains. |
The picture changes a bit doesn't it, when the stats for opposition scoring shots started by turnovers are factored in. Thanks for this extra insight K.
Very interesting to compare the two players you mention from both a positive (our scoring chains) and negative (opposition scoring chains) point of view.
In handing out the million dollar contract, I think the club chose the wrong man!   |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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The best way to determine any value in that stat is to apportion it as differential against all other clubs number one ruckman. They spend most of their time between the arcs and aren’t the most skilful players going around, so that percentage is best served when compared to his counterparts.
If Grundy is running around at 7% and most other ruckman are travelling at a higher percentage, then it’s no crime. Conversely, if most are lower than Grundy, then it’s an area that requires further review. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Selective stats don't sway me from being glad Grundy plays for Collingwood and not against Collingwood. |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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Would also like to see similar stats for say Gawn, Goldstein (is he still playing?), Nic Nat and the Big O from the Lions, compare like for like so to speak
_________________
"You hate a mean man, a grasping man, a man who wants everything and gives nothing. That’s Collingwood. They are a law unto themselves"
Jack 'Captain Blood' Dyer |
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Woods 
Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Location: Melbourne
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Pies2016 wrote: | The best way to determine any value in that stat is to apportion it as differential against all other clubs number one ruckman. They spend most of their time between the arcs and aren’t the most skilful players going around, so that percentage is best served when compared to his counterparts.
... |
Yep, P16, I agree that it'd be better to have the data for all the other ruckmen...
BUT OTOH...
None of the other ruckmen's worth is justified by their coach and their supporters with the claim: Hit outs are irrelevant; he's an extra mid.
If folks want to claim Grundy's an extra mid, he should be judged against other mids. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Ronnie McKeowns boots wrote: | | Would also like to see similar stats for say Gawn, Goldstein (is he still playing?), Nic Nat and the Big O from the Lions, compare like for like so to speak |
Good luck with getting that. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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I thought it was a dog act by Lycett, amazed he wasn't cited for the gutless hit to Grundys head.
I'd like to see Meyers say that to Grundys face. Hawthorn supporting flog.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
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Moore who is lucky to get on the park. Possible captain Adam's also struggles to play more than half a season each year and us ranked second for clangers in the league.
At least Grundy is reliable and consistent. Should however only be on a 4 year deal.
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Buon Giorno |
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Boogie Knights
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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| K wrote: |
If folks want to claim Grundy's an extra mid, he should be judged against other mids. |
If folks want to claim Grundy's an extra mid, he should be judged against other extra mids.
With so many stats available, it is simple to pull out a few that support whatever view you happen to have of a player.
Regardless of whatever the stat du jour is for Grundy, I too am happy he plays in a Collingwood jersey rather than against one. |
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Pep
Joined: 06 Apr 2018
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Grundy is currently ranked 16th in the comp...
Nic Nat is 1st and Gawn is 6th.
If this is a poor season from Grundy as many have put forward .
You can take positives and negatives from this... |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Boogie Knights wrote: | | K wrote: |
If folks want to claim Grundy's an extra mid, he should be judged against other mids. |
...
With so many stats available, it is simple to pull out a few that support whatever view you happen to have of a player.
... |
Which stats can be pulled out that make Grundy look good as an "extra mid"? 
Of course, if folks are happy to drop the claim he's an extra mid, we don't need to compare him with mids... But then we need to face up to his tap work.
| Pep wrote: | Grundy is currently ranked 16th in the comp...
Nic Nat is 1st and Gawn is 6th.
If this is a poor season from Grundy as many have put forward You can take positives and negatives from this... |
It probably means those rankings are too flattering to ruckman. (Nic Nat?? The Bont is now widely regarded as the best player in the league.) Probably they are giving too much weight to meaningless hit outs. But since those rankings will flatter all of those ruckmen equally, if we are to believe them then Grundy is far behind NicNat and Gawn. |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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Boogie Knights
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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I think there's quite a difference between being an extra mid and being a mid...
Extra in this context, to me, means that part of his game is a bonus... something that is not necessarily typical of a ruckman.
Comparing Grundy to typical midfielders is ludicrous and to suggest he should be is similarly ludicrous.
Grundy is a fine ruckman when viewed purely as a ruckman against his contemporaries. The fact that he does so much more and can be viewed as an EXTRA mid (not a mid) is a huge bonus and demonstrates his value. |
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