Lessons from the GF.
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Macattacks 
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| 5:11pm wrote: |
Let’s be honest here, He was gifted a GF team that had just averaged amongst the greatest winning margins in a single AFL season. Then dismantled it.
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If you were really being honest you'd say he was given a team just past it's prime and moving out of the window, we've historically had 2 years on then 7 off
2002/03
2010/11
2018/19
Bucks got the 7 off and had his window dismantled by decision like Wells Mayne Beams etc
you know, if we are being 'honest'
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Moore De Goey |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| jackcass wrote: | While this has all been done to death and what you suggest proven a complete over simplification rather than reflective of reality,
| 5:11pm wrote: | | In 2012 the average age of the playing list was just over 23 years. |
I'd be very interested to know where you got the average age of our list at just over 23?
| 5:11pm wrote: | Sidey, Thomas, Pendles, Reid, Brown, Wellingham, Cloke, Fasolo, Dawes, Sack, Harry O, Clarke, Blair, Beams, Macaffer, Elliot, Seed, Keef and Witts were all 25 and under.
Shaw, Swan, Ball and Maxy were late 20’s and still had much to offer. |
Coming out of 2010 we lost O'Bree, Rusling, Medhurst, Fraser, Lockyer, Barham, Presti, Anthony, Cook and a few fringe types, 2011 we lost Brown, Davis, Dick and McCarthy. North of 1200 games of experience.
In 2012 stalwarts of the team like Didak (11 games), BJ ( , Ball (3), Tarrant (12) struggled to get on the park let alone deliver at the quality the team needed. Continued in 2013 with BJ ((3), Toovey (5), Didak (5), Thomas (5), Beams (, Jolly (9), Ball (13) severly impacted.
Thomas, Wellingham, Dawes, Harry O, and Clarke all departed. Reid was perenially injured. Brown, Fasolo, Sack, Blair, Macaffer, Seed, and Keef were never anymore than role players who all endured their own issues.
| 5:11pm wrote: | | Not sure we were more likely to slide. |
How many sides sustain a finals window of over 8 years? |
https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2012/collingwood |
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| jackcass wrote: |
I'd be very interested to know where you got the average age of our list at just over 23?
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Dunno about the list (not a true indicator anyway, too many list cloggers are treated the same as senior players) but our Grand Final teams were 24.5 years and 24.2 years
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=5145
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Moore De Goey
Last edited by Macattacks on Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| masoncox wrote: | 3 points on lessons learnt
1. You need one or a few superstars.
Think pretacca and martin
2. You need to move the ball forward as quickly as possible.
The game plan of handballing it backwards and then switching it sideways and then threading the needle with precise kicking was not a winning strategy.
Richmond showed us this with there 3 flags.
But unfortunately Buckley persisted with this game plan into this year.
It was bleedingly obvious to most scribes but not to buckley.
3. It is the midfield where you win so put you best players there if possible.
It is why Moore should be there.
It also helps to have a decent spine.... think May, Lever, Fritz etc.... |
Absolutely.
It will be interesting to see how McRae uses Moore. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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Thanks for that, new discovery. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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I wish this bashing Bucks stuff would cease on here, just stop it now, for Chrissakes. He came within 2 mins and a lousy Ump decision of a Premiership, nearly to it, sliding doors moment, He never had a fit and healthy list to choose from not once, ever. He had his faults, but is a legend of the Club. Hes gone now, hes done, so let it go, let him go, stop this childish crap about him. WE have a brand new Coach now, new ideas, new broom, new assistants, we have moved on, and Bucks has moved on. WE all should, leave him be now, and grow the hell up. Really.!
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| jackcass wrote: |
Thanks for that, new discovery. |
Yeah, it’s a good site and appears to be pretty accurate. |
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | I wish this bashing Bucks stuff would cease on here, just stop it now, for Chrissakes. He came within 2 mins and a lousy Ump decision of a Premiership, nearly to it, sliding doors moment, He never had a fit and healthy list to choose from not once, ever. He had his faults, but is a legend of the Club. Hes gone now, hes done, so let it go, let him go, stop this childish crap about him. WE have a brand new Coach now, new ideas, new broom, new assistants, we have moved on, and Bucks has moved on. WE all should, leave him be now, and grow the hell up. Really.! |
It's a miracle we got so close, that's 11 straight seasons of injuries decimating the team, every year we see the premiers go through with barely an injury, how many did Melbourne have this year?
Throw Gubby into the mix making decisions that seemed specifically designed to destroy the list or any chance of a flag, Eddie bringing ole mate back from Brissy and it still took an umpiring decision to kill us
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Moore De Goey |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | I wish this bashing Bucks stuff would cease on here, just stop it now, for Chrissakes. He came within 2 mins and a lousy Ump decision of a Premiership, |
interesting you brang this up Piesnchess
...take a look at the 3 minute to go mark of the 2018 Grand Final.
Crisp takes a mark on the outer wing.
He immediately looks sideways as per instruction re Buckley's game plan.
He kicks it sideways to Sidebottom who is a little back from the wing.
Sidebottom kicks it sideways and backwards back to Crisp who is now 50m backwards of where he first was.
this allows West Coast to flood backwards and block up our forwardline.
When Crisp first got the mark there was a heap of Pie players forward of him.
It could be argued that this game plan cost us the game.
What I am saying is one fundamental aspect of the last 5 years is that the game plan by Bux was second rate compared to West Coast, Richmond and Melbourne.
It is a lesson that should have been learnt before the 2021 season. |
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| masoncox wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | I wish this bashing Bucks stuff would cease on here, just stop it now, for Chrissakes. He came within 2 mins and a lousy Ump decision of a Premiership, |
interesting you brang this up Piesnchess
...take a look at the 3 minute to go mark of the 2018 Grand Final.
Crisp takes a mark on the outer wing.
He immediately looks sideways as per instruction re Buckley's game plan.
He kicks it sideways to Sidebottom who is a little back from the wing. |
That's every single team, that was WC at times in the same game, I literally see that every week, when did it become Buckley's exclusively?
If he'd bombed it forward or tried to pinpoint a player and it rebounded back we'd be screaming why did he do that?
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Moore De Goey |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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Some fluff from the 'roar' doesn't change what I see every week, once again disastrous list management and trading is overlooked to blame Buckley, I heard he leaked Covid from a lab as well?
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Moore De Goey |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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1. When you have elite talls up front and down back you tend to qo quick.
2. Even McRae was reserved about potential game style knowing its not just how you want to play but the cattle you have available.
3. You must have missed the Rd 20 game against Westcoast. they went everywhere BUT directly forward.
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"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| Macattacks wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: |
Let’s be honest here, He was gifted a GF team that had just averaged amongst the greatest winning margins in a single AFL season. Then dismantled it.
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If you were really being honest you'd say he was given a team just past it's prime and moving out of the window, we've historically had 2 years on then 7 off
2002/03
2010/11
2018/19
Bucks got the 7 off and had his window dismantled by decision like Wells Mayne Beams etc
you know, if we are being 'honest' |
Wow.
So your honest appraisal is -
1) Buckley inherited a GF list with amongst the largest winning team margin in an AFL season, and an average age of just 23, which was past it’s prime.
2) As a Senior Coach he was completely blindsided by the recruiters and list managers.
3) He was inordinately cruelled by injuries for a decade straight.
4) He had no influence on the trading out of senior players, and all their common personal grievances are simply coincidental.
5) He was robbed by Nefarious umpires.
6) The plodding, indirect, low scoring game style was the players fault.
7) Any form of analysis that does not completely absolve Buckley from all accountability is branded as Hate Speech.
We are bound by fate to win only 2 seasons out of every 9 (My favourite).
9) And He had to deal with an oval shaped ball.
Can anyone see a pattern here!!! 😂
Fortunately the new operation seems to be focussed on correcting as many of these magical, mystical, and miserable factors as it can in a logical, timely and professional manner. |
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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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If Swanny's career didn't end when it did... Imagine him running around in 2018. Wouldn't have chased Beams etc etc etc This is Collingwood, the land of unpredictable [or predictable] heartache. The definition of Murphy's Law at the end of the year.
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