Lessons from the GF.
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| MJ23 wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | ^ he did coach for 10 yrs so you'd think he'd turn over a few. Still even then managed to build a list and coach a team to a GF with only injuries stopping him from winning it. |
True.
But it doesn’t explain the never ending player revolt.
Something was awry that cannot simply be blamed on recruiting, list MGMT and assistants. |
never ending ?
Hardly a conspiracy - players aligned to Mick left. Funnily enough, if Mick had stayed there were players that were gonna leave.
And yet still, he built a team and made a GF |
Let’s be honest here, He was gifted a GF team that had just averaged amongst the greatest winning margins in a single AFL season. Then dismantled it.
Forgetting about the player revolt in the previous seasons, and regardless of what we now value Treloar, Stevo and Phillips’ quality and trade currency as, it was extremely disheartening to see the way Buckley handled their departures. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| 90 nice wrote: | | Simple lesson in grand finals do not choke simple |
Easier said than done when you have opposition boots around your neck.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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DP
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | ^ he did coach for 10 yrs so you'd think he'd turn over a few. Still even then managed to build a list and coach a team to a GF with only injuries stopping him from winning it. |
True.
But it doesn’t explain the never ending player revolt.
Something was awry that cannot simply be blamed on recruiting, list MGMT and assistants. |
never ending ?
Hardly a conspiracy - players aligned to Mick left. Funnily enough, if Mick had stayed there were players that were gonna leave.
And yet still, he built a team and made a GF |
Let’s be honest here, He was gifted a GF team that had just averaged amongst the greatest winning margins in a single AFL season. Then dismantled it.
Forgetting about the player revolt in the previous seasons, and regardless of what we now value Treloar, Stevo and Phillips’ quality and trade currency as, it was extremely disheartening to see the way Buckley handled their departures. |
Interesting. Reality is that yes, Buck's inherited a GF side. But that ignores that the team was into it's 7th year of what turned out to be an 8 year "window" (2006-2013) when he took over, and extending that window was never assured. More likely to slide than not really.
Disappointing thing is that we only made 2x GF's (excluding the draw) and only won 1, failing at 3x PF's. |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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| 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | ^ he did coach for 10 yrs so you'd think he'd turn over a few. Still even then managed to build a list and coach a team to a GF with only injuries stopping him from winning it. |
True.
But it doesn’t explain the never ending player revolt.
Something was awry that cannot simply be blamed on recruiting, list MGMT and assistants. |
never ending ?
Hardly a conspiracy - players aligned to Mick left. Funnily enough, if Mick had stayed there were players that were gonna leave.
And yet still, he built a team and made a GF |
Let’s be honest here, He was gifted a GF team that had just averaged amongst the greatest winning margins in a single AFL season. Then dismantled it.
Forgetting about the player revolt in the previous seasons, and regardless of what we now value Treloar, Stevo and Phillips’ quality and trade currency as, it was extremely disheartening to see the way Buckley handled their departures. |
You do a good job of over simplifying situations - or re-write history.
He was given a GF losing team. He made a prelim underdone having to attend a ex players funeral then travel to syd for the prelim the same day.
He then had Didak, Jolly, Krakour, Maxwell, Ball, Tarrant and Davis Retire. Couldn't argue with any of these.
Thomas, with a stuffed ankle wanted Pendles type cash and then left to follow Mick - then did nothing the rest of his career
Wellingham traded - fairly well known his issues along with another player moved on who never overcome them.
Dawes traded - did nothing where he went
Shaw traded - we all saw the blow up and the player we brought in is still a leader at the club.
He then re-built this aging list of retiring stars and led us to a GF
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"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| jackcass wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: | | MJ23 wrote: | | ^ he did coach for 10 yrs so you'd think he'd turn over a few. Still even then managed to build a list and coach a team to a GF with only injuries stopping him from winning it. |
True.
But it doesn’t explain the never ending player revolt.
Something was awry that cannot simply be blamed on recruiting, list MGMT and assistants. |
never ending ?
Hardly a conspiracy - players aligned to Mick left. Funnily enough, if Mick had stayed there were players that were gonna leave.
And yet still, he built a team and made a GF |
Let’s be honest here, He was gifted a GF team that had just averaged amongst the greatest winning margins in a single AFL season. Then dismantled it.
Forgetting about the player revolt in the previous seasons, and regardless of what we now value Treloar, Stevo and Phillips’ quality and trade currency as, it was extremely disheartening to see the way Buckley handled their departures. |
Interesting. Reality is that yes, Buck's inherited a GF side. But that ignores that the team was into it's 7th year of what turned out to be an 8 year "window" (2006-2013) when he took over, and extending that window was never assured. More likely to slide than not really.
Disappointing thing is that we only made 2x GF's (excluding the draw) and only won 1, failing at 3x PF's. |
In 2012 the average age of the playing list was just over 23 years.
Sidey, Thomas, Pendles, Reid, Brown, Wellingham, Cloke, Fasolo, Dawes, Sack, Harry O, Clarke, Blair, Beams, Macaffer, Elliot, Seed, Keef and Witts were all 25 and under.
Shaw, Swan, Ball and Maxy were late 20’s and still had much to offer.
Not sure we were more likely to slide. |
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Macattacks 
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| 5:11pm wrote: |
List managers, recruiters, assistants etc. all play a vital role in the success of a football club. As does the Senior coach.
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Yet Buckley is the only one you focus on, you need a simple figurehead to vent at while letting the real perpetrators of this disastrous list management, (ie throwing premierships away on bloated contracts for injured plodders and wasting first rounders) off the hook
And you still haven't answered me on what you are going to do in 2 years when Josh Daicos is the only quality between the ages of 24 and 26 and we are staring at an extended rebuild while our stars in Moore De Goey Maynard etc start sliding past their best, will you be frothing about how McRae can't coach or still blaming Bux for list management?
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Moore De Goey |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| Macattacks wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: |
List managers, recruiters, assistants etc. all play a vital role in the success of a football club. As does the Senior coach.
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Yes but Buckley is the only one you focus on, you need a simple figurehead to vent while letting the real perpetrators of this disastrous list management, (ie throwing premierships away on bloated contracts for injured plodders and wasting first rounders) off the hook |
As I stated earlier the recruiting, list MGMT, assistants etc. all play a key role in a successful footy club. As does the senior coach.
To focus on any and all positions other than the head coach is irresponsible. And to suggest that examining Buckley’s decade at the helm in a clinical light amounts to ‘Hate’ is delusional.
Buckley’s footballing achievements are as vast as they are varied.
Unfortunately for all involved, it is unlikely that his time as a head coach will be remembered amongst them. |
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| 5:11pm wrote: |
As I stated earlier the recruiting, list MGMT, assistants etc. all play a key role in a successful footy club. As does the senior coach.
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And as I stated you only focus on Buckley so you are contradicting yourself, and still haven't answered the question, understandable given we both know who you will be blaming soon enough
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Moore De Goey |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| Macattacks wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: |
List managers, recruiters, assistants etc. all play a vital role in the success of a football club. As does the Senior coach.
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Yet Buckley is the only one you focus on, you need a simple figurehead to vent at while letting the real perpetrators of this disastrous list management, (ie throwing premierships away on bloated contracts for injured plodders and wasting first rounders) off the hook
And you still haven't answered me on what you are going to do in 2 years when Josh Daicos is the only quality between the ages of 24 and 26 and we are staring at an extended rebuild while our stars in Moore De Goey Maynard etc start sliding past their best, will you be frothing about how McRae can't coach or still blaming Bux for list management? |
Buckley has a 10 year body of head coaching to review.
McRae is yet to coach a single senior game.
When I get my hands on a Flux Capacitor I’ll let you know. |
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| 5:11pm wrote: |
When I get my hands on a Flux Capacitor I’ll let you know. |
If you had one of those you could go back and nut Gubby and we'd win the 2018 premiership and wouldn't have a list hole the size of the grand canyon
"All Buckley's fault cry the toothless hordes"
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Moore De Goey |
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5:11pm
Joined: 28 Aug 2021
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| Macattacks wrote: | | 5:11pm wrote: |
When I get my hands on a Flux Capacitor I’ll let you know. |
If you had one of those you could go back and nut Gubby and we'd win the 2018 premiership and wouldn't have a list hole the size of the grand canyon
"All Buckley's fault cry the toothless hordes" |
Your complete devotion to all things Buckley is as admirable as it is blinding.
Fortunately for the future of the Club, Wright does not appear to be hampered by the same affliction. |
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Macattacks
Joined: 12 Sep 2021
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| 5:11pm wrote: |
Your complete devotion to all things Buckley is as admirable as it is blinding.
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I was talking about Gubby, it's you that thinks Buckley was some sort of superhuman doing everyone else's job for them 
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Moore De Goey |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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While this has all been done to death and what you suggest proven a complete over simplification rather than reflective of reality,
| 5:11pm wrote: | | In 2012 the average age of the playing list was just over 23 years. |
I'd be very interested to know where you got the average age of our list at just over 23?
| 5:11pm wrote: | Sidey, Thomas, Pendles, Reid, Brown, Wellingham, Cloke, Fasolo, Dawes, Sack, Harry O, Clarke, Blair, Beams, Macaffer, Elliot, Seed, Keef and Witts were all 25 and under.
Shaw, Swan, Ball and Maxy were late 20’s and still had much to offer. |
Coming out of 2010 we lost O'Bree, Rusling, Medhurst, Fraser, Lockyer, Barham, Presti, Anthony, Cook and a few fringe types, 2011 we lost Brown, Davis, Dick and McCarthy. North of 1200 games of experience.
In 2012 stalwarts of the team like Didak (11 games), BJ ( , Ball (3), Tarrant (12) struggled to get on the park let alone deliver at the quality the team needed. Continued in 2013 with BJ ((3), Toovey (5), Didak (5), Thomas (5), Beams (, Jolly (9), Ball (13) severly impacted.
Thomas, Wellingham, Dawes, Harry O, and Clarke all departed. Reid was perenially injured. Brown, Fasolo, Sack, Blair, Macaffer, Seed, and Keef were never anymore than role players who all endured their own issues.
| 5:11pm wrote: | | Not sure we were more likely to slide. |
How many sides sustain a finals window of over 8 years? |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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3 points on lessons learnt
1. You need one or a few superstars.
Think pretacca and martin
2. You need to move the ball forward as quickly as possible.
The game plan of handballing it backwards and then switching it sideways and then threading the needle with precise kicking was not a winning strategy.
Richmond showed us this with there 3 flags.
But unfortunately Buckley persisted with this game plan into this year.
It was bleedingly obvious to most scribes but not to buckley.
3. It is the midfield where you win so put you best players there if possible.
It is why Moore should be there.
It also helps to have a decent spine.... think May, Lever, Fritz etc....
Last edited by masoncox on Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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