A Grundy thread
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| K wrote: | | Huh?? Off topic, but I just saw this... |
Good to know you read my posts before hitting reply 
My point was not to rehash the whole injury debacle, which as you say we had a long, looong thread about, but rather to say that it’s my observation that you have a tendency to pick out a single issue and focus on it as the root cause of our problems (which I think we all agree is not winning as many flags as we should have). Boastful club song was another one…now it’s Grundy’s turn in the spotlight. And when you do, you’re like a dog with a bone
I’m sure you will disagree with my observation but that’s the great thing about freedom of speech
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| K wrote: |
No, I never blamed Grundy for the loss... I [said] that if he'd dominated Silvagni, like he should've, Collingwood might've won |
Thanks for explaining the subtle difference between blaming one player for a result and saying we might have won if only he’d done his job properly
| K wrote: | | I don't care about how Silvagni did against other ruckmen. You were the one who started talkin' 'bout that... |
No, you were the one who said Grundy should have dominated him like team X (who turned out to be STK) did when they had 70 hitouts to 5 against him (which never happened).
My response was that Silvagni has never been #1 ruck for Carlton or rucked a whole game or even the majority of a game (this season anyway) and that is why I don’t really care how Grundy did against him because it was FIVE contests across a whole season
| K wrote: | | What's it gonna take for folks to accept that when Grundy hits it straight to the oppo, it's not the fault of Collingwood mids? |
Don’t know but If you can’t make a point on Grundy vs Gawn/NicNat etc. then 5 contests against Silvagni is not going to make anyone say Oh you know what, you’ve convinced me now
Once again, how about we give him at least 1 game under the new coach and see if we get the improvement in the connection between Grundy and the mids we all want, regardless of who’s at fault
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Charlie Oneeye 
charlie oneeye
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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I'm not sure, but I strongly suspect our mids were slightly on the defensive side of their opponents, and we didn't have the luxury of palming down on our goalside.
Sometimes its just standing a little left or right as per the game plan,.
Grundy may have felt any offensive hitout would give the opposition the slight advantage.
Sometimes the mid actually wants his opponent to get his hand on it first, so he can then control the opponent and take advantage of his space by being slightly on the outside.
There's a thousand things.. its not just see ball bash ball.
Its the nuance of the day that counts, and we have NFI what they were trying to do,,,,, obviously didn't work
Grundy
or
Tactics
or
Onbalers
Most likely all 3, and it was a shiite day. |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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I’m glad Grundy showed some leadership and made a commonsense statement
He hasn’t in the past done this and to me shows some personal development which is great
As for losing 5kg I’m wondering if the extra 5kg was hampering him ? He didn’t have his best year in 2021
It also great to see him mentoring and helping the young SA kids
When McRae was appointed he made a comment that Grundy needed to connect more with team mates
Many like me took it to mean on field
I’m wondering if it was meant off field ?
Either way I’m glad to see it |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | ...
| K wrote: | | I don't care about how Silvagni did against other ruckmen. You were the one who started talkin' 'bout that... |
No, you were the one who said Grundy should have dominated him like team X (who turned out to be STK) did when they had 70 hitouts to 5 against him (which never happened).
My response was that Silvagni has never been #1 ruck for Carlton or rucked a whole game or even the majority of a game (this season anyway) and that is why I don’t really care how Grundy did against him because it was FIVE contests across a whole season
... |
Wowee... 
Didn't wanna get caught up in who said what when... but just look at your posts! This is what you posted immediately after the list of Grundy vs. Silvagni ruck contests.
| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | ...
Silvagni is credited with 3 hit outs in that game. He had 5 against the Saints, 4 vs Suns and 3 vs Cats
... |
I'm not the one who started talkin' 'bout Silvagni as ruckman vs. St K (and GC and Geebung). You were!!
Sounded like your argument was:
"Look! Silvagni got the same number of hit outs against other clubs' ruckmen. So Grundy didn't do too badly against Silvagni!!"
Of course that's bollocks! 'Cos Silvagni winning 5-0 (in effect) vs. Grundy is a lot different from Silvagni losing 5-50* against StK ruckmen!!!
(* best guess)
Of course feel free to explain what your argument was if it wasn't that... But it sure sounded like it was. Why else would you start talkin' 'bout Silvagni's 5 HOs vs. StK??
And lemme get back to this...
| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | ...
... you were the one who said Grundy should have dominated him like team X (who turned out to be STK) did when they had 70 hitouts to 5 against him (which never happened).
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Huh?!?! No!!! I certainly said Grundy should've dominated Silvagni. Of course he should've!! I did not say he should've dominated him like team X. Didn't need to see how Silvagni rucks against anyone else to know that Silvagni is an absurd choice of ruckman... Which was the whole point, i.e. Gleeson was right that oppo don't give a stuff about Grundy's hit outs. Oppo show they don't give a stuff by playing absurd "ruckmen" on Grundy when their real ruckmen are injured. |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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When you make posts like that I picture your monocle popping out and landing in your prawn cocktail
| K wrote: | | IIRC in one game, his [Silvagni] opponents got about 70 HOs. (Dunno which now...): |
So this comment had no relevance to your argument and was just mentioned randomly. Got it
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: |
Many like me took it to mean on field
I’m wondering if it was meant off field ? |
I very much took it to mean off field. Being less stand-of fish and more part of the team for won’t of better words. Less of the “different cat” persona, at least visibly
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | I’m glad Grundy showed some leadership and made a commonsense statement
He hasn’t in the past done this and to me shows some personal development which is great
As for losing 5kg I’m wondering if the extra 5kg was hampering him ? He didn’t have his best year in 2021
It also great to see him mentoring and helping the young SA kids
When McRae was appointed he made a comment that Grundy needed to connect more with team mates
Many like me took it to mean on field
I’m wondering if it was meant off field ?
Either way I’m glad to see it |
New coaches love to yo - yo players weights, particularly the big blokes.
Grundy reckons he’s now closer to his 2018 playing weight, so hopefully it will allow him to be involved more around the ground. Whatever anyone’s view is on Grundy, I can’t see him being less effective in 2022. The real question will be just how much improvement will we get next season. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Definitely looks slimmer and super fit. How it translates to actual games of footy is another matter. Craig has a high risk, high reward game plan. When it doesn’t come off and we lose by a large margin, do we do what we normally do here and blame the ruckman. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Rd10.1998_11.1#36 wrote: | When you make posts like that I picture your monocle popping out and landing in your prawn cocktail
| K wrote: | | IIRC in one game, his [Silvagni] opponents got about 70 HOs. (Dunno which now...): |
So this comment had no relevance to your argument and was just mentioned randomly. Got it |
Wowee...
(The spare monocle just popped out...)
Surely it's not hard to understand!!
You started talkin' 'bout StK (and GC and Geebung). I didn't. I think we can agree on that.
I told you what it sounded like you were arguing ("Silvagni got the same number of HOs against some other ruckmen, so Grundy wasn't so bad against Silvagni after all").
Of course that argument is bollocks. So then and only then, i.e. after you implied that bad argument, I gave reasons why it's a bad argument ("Silvagni thrashing Grundy 5-0 is not the same as Silvagni being thrashed 5-50 by StK ruckmen, even if both 'scores' have a '5', etc.").
i.e. I was just responding to your bad argument!! Nothing more!!
i.e. That was not my reason for saying Silvagni humiliated Grundy. The evidence of my eyes, watching the game live, told me Silvagni humiliated Grundy!!
And then you just retreated to saying you don't care about Silvagni thrashing Grundy, 'cos it's only a small percentage of Grundy's lifetime ruck contests, etc.!!!
You make a bad argument. Then when it's obvious it's bad, you say you don't care! 
Last edited by K on Sun Dec 19, 2021 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Charlie Oneeye
charlie oneeye
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Definitely looks slimmer and super fit. How it translates to actual games of footy is another matter. Craig has a high risk, high reward game plan. When it doesn’t come off and we lose by a large margin, do we do what we normally do here and blame the ruckman. |
Thats true.
I look at some teams who look like millionaires in season, and they excite their supporters... but when they start finals the more obvious the gap between them and the real McCoy's.
Whatever we are playing now, it looks like the instant play on from any position and beeline to goal. Quick ball movement on steroids.
Usually, manning up and controlling the pace of the game destroys this grand plan.. So I look forward to seeing what coaches do this season. I do see it as a transition year to new ways.
I think our newbie coaches will enjoy a honeymoon of innovation . |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Charlie Oneeye wrote: | | MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Definitely looks slimmer and super fit. How it translates to actual games of footy is another matter. Craig has a high risk, high reward game plan. When it doesn’t come off and we lose by a large margin, do we do what we normally do here and blame the ruckman. |
Thats true.
I look at some teams who look like millionaires in season, and they excite their supporters... but when they start finals the more obvious the gap between them and the real McCoy's.
Whatever we are playing now, it looks like the instant play on from any position and beeline to goal. Quick ball movement on steroids.
Usually, manning up and controlling the pace of the game destroys this grand plan.. So I look forward to seeing what coaches do this season. I do see it as a transition year to new ways.
I think our newbie coaches will enjoy a honeymoon of innovation . |
Skill execution destroys any game plan (or you can hope the opposition has a bad day kicking for goal) and our skill level when you take into account the amount of inexperience in the side compared to the opposition who have more games of senior experience than us, is lacking. People assume that just changing the coach fixes everything up. It doesn't. Craig is spot on saying we want to get as good as we can as fast as we can. There is no substitute for games of experience. All the coach can do is train the players up and select the right combination of players in the team. Then it's up to the players. |
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Charlie Oneeye
charlie oneeye
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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Ahhhh These are the footy conversations I like
Hopefully perennial critics can leave a few digs behind, and Internet forms can get back to enjoying and discussing the nuances of improvements from our newbies and team instead of dissecting every angle of criticism. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| MatthewBoydFanClub wrote: | | Definitely looks slimmer and super fit. How it translates to actual games of footy is another matter. Craig has a high risk, high reward game plan. When it doesn’t come off and we lose by a large margin, do we do what we normally do here and blame the ruckman? |
It's simple, really.
If the ruckman gives silver service to his teammates and the team loses by a large margin, we don't blame the ruckman.
If the ruckman bashes hit outs straight to the oppo, gives oppo goal assists, etc. then we do blame the ruckman. |
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