A Grundy thread
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Magpietothemax 
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| K wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ... Grundy was one of our best, again. |
I thought Ryder spanked him.
And I hope everyone noticed within 30 seconds of the 2nd half, Grundy had another hit out oppo goal involvement. He whacked the hit out to a St K player who kicked it to Membrey, who goaled. |
But you can't just blame Grundy for those kind of moments. Our mids were more often than not non-existent today. In the first three quarters of the game, it literally looked like we had no mids at all quite often.
You cannot expect Grundy to look like good against opposition ruckmen when he has no midfield to hit the ball to.
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | ...
Yeah, he makes mistakes. But the point is, with our currently dysfunctional midfield, the mistakes that Grundy makes look even worse because there is no counterbalance of whn his good taps are taken advantage of. I thought our clearance play for the first three quarters was appalling. Our mids were demolished by theirs. You cannot therefore judge what Grundy achieved today on a level playing field with Ryder.
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It seems he doesn't have all that many truly "good taps". This is where Grundy is even worse than the stats show. The stats are too primitive.
e.g. today, again, after one centre hit out our mid (Adams?) got a free kick. That automatically makes the hit out a "hit out to advantage". That's got not much to do with the quality of the hit out. Adams's opponent just gave away a free to him. That's all. |
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Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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| K wrote: | | Magpietothemax wrote: | ...
Yeah, he makes mistakes. But the point is, with our currently dysfunctional midfield, the mistakes that Grundy makes look even worse because there is no counterbalance of whn his good taps are taken advantage of. I thought our clearance play for the first three quarters was appalling. Our mids were demolished by theirs. You cannot therefore judge what Grundy achieved today on a level playing field with Ryder.
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It seems he doesn't have all that many truly "good taps". This is where Grundy is even worse than the stats show. The stats are too primitive.
e.g. today, again, after one centre hit out our mid (Adams?) got a free kick. That automatically makes the hit out a "hit out to advantage". That's got not much to do with the quality of the hit out. Adams's opponent just gave away a free to him. That's all. |
K, you are focussing on single moments that stay in your memory because you believe Grundy is not good enough. I saw plenty of taps from Grundy today where we could have made use, if we were good enough. I don't think Grundy is the issue. It is a midfield issue above all else, combined with a strangulatinly defensive coaching mindset.
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | I have no interest in salaries. I just can't abide people bagging our couple of competent footballers. Grundy was one of our best, again. |
So you ignore the issue people have, it's not is Grundy a competent footballer, it's is his output worthy of being the 5th highest paid player in the AFL?
Now if the goal of a football club is to win premierships, then surely you'd want your highest paid player actually contributing to wins? The fact we do better without him suggests his salary will set this club back over 10 years. |
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AJ
Joined: 24 Jun 2021
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| Thought Grundy was huge today. His effort in the Sedona half got us got us back into it. Taught Ryder a footy lesson. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| AJ wrote: | | Thought Grundy was huge today. His effort in the Sedona half got us got us back into it. Taught Ryder a footy lesson. |
I'm shocked anyone would think this. 
Ryder's two goals on their own should make you think twice. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Magpietothemax wrote: | | K wrote: | | Magpietothemax wrote: | ...
Yeah, he makes mistakes. But the point is, with our currently dysfunctional midfield, the mistakes that Grundy makes look even worse because there is no counterbalance of whn his good taps are taken advantage of. ,,,
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It seems he doesn't have all that many truly "good taps". This is where Grundy is even worse than the stats show. The stats are too primitive.
e.g. today, again, after one centre hit out our mid (Adams?) got a free kick. That automatically makes the hit out a "hit out to advantage". That's got not much to do with the quality of the hit out. Adams's opponent just gave away a free to him. That's all. |
K, you are focussing on single moments that stay in your memory because you believe Grundy is not good enough. I saw plenty of taps from Grundy today where we could have made use, if we were good enough. I don't think Grundy is the issue. It is a midfield issue above all else, combined with a strangulatinly defensive coaching mindset. |
Mttm, you are setting the bar way too low. Especially in games where he gets 40 or 50 hit outs, you'd expect some to be ones "we could have made use" of. If we'd set up a random hit out machine, it'd for sure have given us many hit outs we could have made use of.
The disturbing thing is: Grundy's hit outs that the oppo can make use of are at least equal in number and value (for the oppo) to his hit outs that Collingwood players can make use of.
It may well be that many or most other ruckmen across the AFL are equally unskilled and ineffective. I'm totally open to that possibility. If so, it'd just show how little value ruckmen are. That'd explain why our club is the only one so foolish it gives a ruckman a $7 million contract. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Something is not Right with Grundy as I agree he Form has dropped off quite badly but why?
I don't buy that 100% of the Reason is because of the Big Contract
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| AJ wrote: | | Thought Grundy was huge today. His effort in the Sedona half got us got us back into it. Taught Ryder a footy lesson. |
Yes, he was. As usual. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| K wrote: | | AJ wrote: | | Thought Grundy was huge today. His effort in the Sedona half got us got us back into it. Taught Ryder a footy lesson. |
I'm shocked anyone would think this.
Ryder's two goals on their own should make you think twice. |
None of Ryder or Marshall's goals were kicked on Grundy. We were playing undersized backmen against the St Kilda ruckmen and paid the price for failing to pick the best team on Thursday night. |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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"It may well be that many or most other ruckmen across the AFL are equally unskilled and ineffective. I'm totally open to that possibility."
i think you have something here. Unless the ruckman uses his size to be a great mark around the goals, or makes himself a lethal forward target, you basically just have 2 big guys negating each other - which is why Lynch did all right on Gawn. and yes, having our ruckman as out highest paid player does not look like a real healthy situation going forward. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| gurugeoff wrote: | "It may well be that many or most other ruckmen across the AFL are equally unskilled and ineffective. I'm totally open to that possibility."
i think you have something here. Unless the ruckman uses his size to be a great mark around the goals, or makes himself a lethal forward target, you basically just have 2 big guys negating each other - which is why Lynch did all right on Gawn. and yes, having our ruckman as out highest paid player does not look like a real healthy situation going forward. |
Going forward is our biggest problem.  |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| gurugeoff wrote: | "It may well be that many or most other ruckmen across the AFL are equally unskilled and ineffective. I'm totally open to that possibility."
i think you have something here. Unless the ruckman uses his size to be a great mark around the goals, or makes himself a lethal forward target, you basically just have 2 big guys negating each other - which is why Lynch did all right on Gawn. and yes, having our ruckman as out highest paid player does not look like a real healthy situation going forward. |
Says it perfectly from my point of view, gurugeoff.
Like K, E and so many others have pointed out previously, the biggest problem with Grundy is that his contribution to the success of the team in any one game simply does not currently match up with what he is being paid (nor is it ever likely to). Consequently, it becomes a waste of player salary that could have been better spent elsewhere. This is a huge mistake, that is only going to be accentuated over the coming seasons, as the team tries to rebuild.
Some of this ludicrous situation is simply due as you say to Grundy being a ruckman. After all, the only reason there are rucking contests is to get the game rolling, with the ball usually being knocked randomly out of the contest. Very occasionally, the ball is delivered straight into the hands of a team mate.
Again, as you mention, a ruckman's overall contribution is then best determined by their work around the ground, by their willingness and ability to perform other valuable facets of the game. Not since his AA years has Grundy consistently excelled in this regard, for whatever reasons.
He may yet regain that stellar form of 2018/19, but even if he does, I doubt whether his value to the team should command the highest salary, above that of say an AA forward or AA mid ( should we be lucky enough to grow our own, because recruiting them in is far less likely with Grundy hogging so much of the salary cap).
The length and amount of Grundy's lucrative contract has just been yet another huge blunder by list management, the footy department and the board who ultimately approved it. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Darcy was equal Best on Ground yesterday for Fremantle, according to the coaches. No other ruckman got a vote. Two games ago, he was also Best on Ground and no other ruckman got a vote. In between, he played Collingwood. He got a vote. Grundy got more.
Really, I wonder what game some of you think you watch. We have maybe, at most, 10 good players at Collingwood and Grundy is the first 5 of them. |
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PyreneesPie
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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^ This superfluous information may be as it may, but does not impact on the argument of myself and others that his present form does not warrant him being so highly reimbursed.
We are presently wasting valuable salary cap room on Grundy's contract. To warrant the contract he is on and compensate for its coming negative effect on being able to recruit a top quality player, he needs to be BOG in nearly every game now and for the next 5 years into the future. Ridiculous to expect that of any player, let alone a ruckman.
So, once again, it all adds up to a huge blunder by the club. Obviously, we could be getting by nicely with Darcy Cameron/Max Lynch in the ruck and possibly have a top quality forward or mid that we got in exchange for letting Grundy go elsewhere. This is a burden that has to be carried for five more years!!!!! |
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