A Grundy thread
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Dark Beanie 
Joined: 06 Feb 2004
Location: A galaxy far, far away.
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I agree PP.
I will always go out there and support the players but these days as professionals they have to perform. Everyone has had bosses that they didn't like or who were twats but you get on with it and do your job.
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If you are foolish enough to be contented, don't show it, but just grumble with the rest. - Jerome K Jerome |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Dark Beanie wrote: | I agree PP.
I will always go out there and support the players but these days as professionals they have to perform. Everyone has had bosses that they didn't like or who were twats but you get on with it and do your job. |
 As I was writing that post above, I recalled all the complete twats I have had for bosses along the way In such situations, you just have to hope that the organisation's managers have twigged to what's happening and do something about it. Qldmagpie's post suggests that there are moves afoot to rectify the matter.  |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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'Buckley also did not rule out playing ruckman Darcy Cameron...
“That’s a consideration for us. I don’t think that anyone has found … a way to get above his [Naitanui’s] hand in a centre bounce. Blunting that is half the battle so we will be looking at being better at centre bounce.
“It’s not just what happens inside the square but what happens behind it.
“They kicked five goals from centre bounce in our elimination final last year.”'
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Dunno what he was trying to say in the last bit, but five goals in a low score sounds a lot to me. I reckon most weeks our mob gets zero goals from centre bounces. |
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Boogie Knights
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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| K wrote: | 'Buckley also did not rule out playing ruckman Darcy Cameron...
“They kicked five goals from centre bounce in our elimination final last year.”'
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I believe the rest of that quote goes... 'and each of those 5 was while Darcy Cameron was in there' |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Oh, that context would certainly make a difference! But we know he went with Cameron at the crucial final centre bounce, leaving Grundy on the bench!
And it still contradicts his "hit outs are irrelevant" belief. The truth is: bad hit outs are irrelevant. Good hit outs are relevant. Collingwood has only bad hit outs. |
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | The Grundy of 2017/18/19 was a sight to behold
His work rate and second third efforts made him a prized signature for any club
You don’t loss your ability over night but you do loss you desire for whatever reason
With Foxsports naming him as a disgruntled player unhappy with Buckley there’s obviously a issue there among the group and like everyone I’m assuming it involves the departure of Treloar
Whilst P4S won’t like it Treloar was in our best 5 players most weeks over the same period of time
I could post up several stats showing he was at least as effective in his disposal as many of his midfield team mates and that’s after being played as a inside mid when he’s clearly a outside mid
I understood the Stephenson trade if half rhe rumours are true if his behaviour sacking him was the only course of action to take
I decided to go have a look at the post match interactions between the players and Treloar
Grundy hugged and laughed with him for a couple minutes
It was obvious there relationship was close
If a key plank in our team isn’t on board with the coach or the club we have massive issues deeper than I assumed
Grundy is a different cat he doesn’t live and breathe football that’s a known fact
But when you accept the contract he did it comes with high expectations on performances
Right now he isn’t living up to his contract size
And no matter how P4S wants to spin it he’s form is off for whatever reason |
It’s a pity that Grundy and Treloars obvious close relationship didn’t translate on the field as much as one would have hoped.
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Boogie Knights
Joined: 18 Sep 2015
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| Boogie Knights wrote: | | K wrote: | 'Buckley also did not rule out playing ruckman Darcy Cameron...
“They kicked five goals from centre bounce in our elimination final last year.”'
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I believe the rest of that quote goes... 'and each of those 5 was while Darcy Cameron was in there' |
| K wrote: | Oh, that context would certainly make a difference! But we know he went with Cameron at the crucial final centre bounce, leaving Grundy on the bench!
And it still contradicts his "hit outs are irrelevant" belief. The truth is: bad hit outs are irrelevant. Good hit outs are relevant. Collingwood has only bad hit outs. |
Apologies K, this was not in fact part of what Bucks said, it was what I heard in my head as he said it while I remembered the game mentioned. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| K wrote: | | Oh, that context would certainly make a difference! But we know he went with Cameron at the crucial final centre bounce, leaving Grundy on the bench! |
Nathan obviously hasn't gone back to look at the match closely, anyway. I was surprised to hear him say in his press conference today that Grundy and Cameron each played about 65% of the game. Cameron played only 48% of the game. Plainly, anyone who goes back and watches the game (as, eg, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuCj5oBIXdw ) with any reasonably critical eye will observe that the use of Cameron in the last quarter was a disaster. West Coast had the first 9 inside 50s and got the goals to retake the lead while Grundy was on the bench at the start of the quarter. The first centre bounce resulted in a mark to Liam Ryan (within 10 seconds of the start of the quarter), from which Ryan goaled. Collingwood immediately wrested control back when Grundy came on the ground. The pies kicked their 10th and 11th goals with Grundy on the field (both, notably, given the perverse rubbish being peddled by the pro-English clowns in the media, started by Grundy's contested marking on the wing). Grundy then went off. Collingwood kicked their 12th and final goal with Cameron in the ruck - Natanui got the hitout but put it down Elliott's throat. Interestingly, Natanui spent much of the afternoon doing that against St Kilda last weekend. The difference between St Kilda and Collingwood is that the St Kilda midfield were able to intercept Natanui - they lost the hitouts about 45 to 30 but won the clearances by about the same margin. St Kilda's rucks were ordinary but their mids are way better than ours around stoppages. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| shawthing wrote: | | Mr Miyagi wrote: | | Buckley made a good point about hit outs. Melbourne is in the same boat and can’t capitalise either. |
Well why the hell did we mortgage the farm for a useless player in Grundy then? ... |
Err... No... Not this year. Melbourne are 4-0. Their mids like Oliver are feasting on Gawn's service. They have no problem in the ruck. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| K wrote: | | shawthing wrote: | | Mr Miyagi wrote: | | Buckley made a good point about hit outs. Melbourne is in the same boat and can’t capitalise either. |
Well why the hell did we mortgage the farm for a useless player in Grundy then? ... |
Err... No... Not this year. Melbourne are 4-0. Their mids like Oliver are feasting on Gawn's service. They have no problem in the ruck. |
You say such things with a confidence that suggests that there might be some evidentiary basis for it.
In truth, the stats this year show that Melbourne has won the hit-outs massively in all 4 games (40 to 17, 52 to 17, 41 to 32 and 54 to 24) but have only won clearances twice (and modestly, having regard to the ruck dominance). The teams they've won the clearances against are both teams that prefer to launch from the back (most particularly Geelong, who couldn't care less about clearances). Gawn is a good player - but he would look like a complete spud if he was hitting it to the present, mostly inept Collingwood midfield, too. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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We don't have stats on truly good clearances.
Wish we did.
e.g. Against Brissy (Q3?), Grundy kicked it out of the centre backwards (and sideways) to free space at HB/wing. Presumably that counts as a clearance. But it's not a good one. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| K wrote: | We don't have stats on truly good clearances.
Wish we did.
e.g. Against Brissy (Q3?), Grundy kicked it out of the centre backwards (and sideways) to free space at HB/wing. Presumably that counts as a clearance. But it's not a good one. |
You don't really wish that, though. What you keep looking for are areas of uncertainty in the statistics, so that you can cling on to the nonsense idea that it's all somehow Grundy's fault when all the stats actually tell us that most of the team is stinking it up at the contest in a gameplan that is dependent on us winning the contest. We lose more often than not because we are losing more often than not the key thing around which the entire Collingwood gameplan is built. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Where have I ever claimed that the club's woes are "all Grundy's fault"? You are now resorting to silly straw man arguments. The club has made terrible mistakes in many areas. In a word, the club is unprofessional.
The hit out and clearances stats are so primitive, it's ridiculous. If they were on the same level as the kick stats, they'd at least have clangers, etc. Then we'd have a count of the times Grundy bashes the hit out straight to an oppo player, with no teammate in sight. How is that his teammates' fault (or the coach's instructions, as you repeatedly claim with zero evidence)?  |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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How often does that happen? Rarely if ever - as you would know if you re-watched the game closely, rather than just picking up and regurgitating the latest garbage spouted by a journalist who doesn't know anything more about the game than any of us do.
Go back and watch the last West Coast game with Collingwood. Or have a look at last week's St Kilda v West Coast game. Natanui spent all day hitting it down the throats of the St Kilda mids and got basically thrashed in the ruck. No-one wants to talk about that here because it doesn't suit the anti-Grundy narrative. Natanui did it against us in the final last year, too. For one example amongst many, what turned out to be the winning Collingwood goal came from a centre contest in which Natanui pantsed Cameron but hit the ball straight down Elliott's throat.
At the moment, Collingwood has about half a team of good or adequate footballers. Why not spend some time analysing the actual holes, instead of sniping at one of the f ewwho actually does turn up and do his thing each week? |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | How often does that happen? |
Frequently. If you weren't so biased, you'd see it.
What is extremely rare is a really clean, decisive centre clearance. I can only remember one for the entire of 2020. And that was probably a fluke.
| Pies4shaw wrote: | ...
Go back and watch the last West Coast game with Collingwood. ... |
You are the only one out of the whole media, coaches, fans, who reckons Grundy was not dominated by NicNat on that night. Watching it, I was terrified at each centre bounce NicNat took.
We know there are problems across the whole playing list. But they are problems that can be solved. (At worst, you can just get rid of players and start again.) When you commit $7 million to someone, it's much harder to solve that problem. |
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