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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Alex wrote: | | DE means nothing. Mayne being at the top shows this. Chip 15 metre backward kicks should not count as an effective disposal. Mayne is Top 5 in disposals per game, but is 16TH in metres gained! Also, Poulter is 12th in metres gained for our team, but has only played half the games this year. He has 2177 total metres gained, so if you double that, he would be third, only behind Crisp and Maynard. |
You'll get no disagreement from me. I posted it because Abdul specifically asked. Another way of doing it would be to divide the total metres gained by the number of effective disposals (or effective kicks).
Thus, Mayne has "gained" 1,962 metres from 168 effective disposals (average of 11.67 metres gained per disposal), whereas Thomas has gained 2 metres more with only 90 effective disposals (average gain 21.8 m) and Sidebottom has gained 3,559 metres with 186 effective disposals (average gain 19.1 m). Crisp, who has gained the most metres and, I think it would be fair to say, kicks very long quite a lot, has an average gain per effective disposal of 26.3 metres. Those averages blend the proportion of handballs to kicks, as well. Looking at other examples, Poulter averages 27.7 and Mihocek averages a whopping 39.3.
There are plenty of other ways to cut the disposals data. That's just one example. |
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AnthonyC 
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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^Scooby I saw those stats, I meant where can I see that Cameron & Cox combined are better than Grundy? Many things are subjective but I don’t see where they together are more effective than Grundy.
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Go Pies! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Alex wrote: | | DE means nothing. Mayne being at the top shows this. Chip 15 metre backward kicks should not count as an effective disposal. Mayne is Top 5 in disposals per game, but is 16TH in metres gained! Also, Poulter is 12th in metres gained for our team, but has only played half the games this year. He has 2177 total metres gained, so if you double that, he would be third, only behind Crisp and Maynard. |
You'll get no disagreement from me. I posted it because Abdul specifically asked. Another way of doing it would be to divide the total metres gained by the number of effective disposals (or effective kicks).
Thus, Mayne has "gained" 1,962 metres from 168 effective disposals (average of 11.67 metres gained per disposal), whereas Thomas has gained 2 metres more with only 90 effective disposals (average gain 21.8 m) and Sidebottom has gained 3,559 metres with 186 effective disposals (average gain 19.1 m). Crisp, who has gained the most metres and, I think it would be fair to say, kicks very long quite a lot, has an average gain per effective disposal of 26.3 metres. Those averages blend the proportion of handballs to kicks, as well. Looking at other examples, Poulter averages 27.7 and Mihocek averages a whopping 39.3.
There are plenty of other ways to cut the disposals data. That's just one example. |
Meters gained is a funny stat
A inside mid getting a 2 meter handball out of traffic to a open team mate who kicks it 25m but which disposal is more important ?
I personally like kicking eff as a stat because doesn’t matter who much of the ball you get but if you don’t use it well then it’s pointless
Mayne will always have high kicking eff because he kicks backwards or side ways to Moore or someone else
I would have Moore kicking for me because he has a good long boot and takes on the corridor more
Another is effective disposals no point getting it 30 times if half are not effective or worthless
Crisp stats will always be high as he plays mid sliding back to defence and using his racking boot to clear it out so we can reset
As a side I have been highly critical of Sidey this season as his kicking eff had dropped from a career ave over 60% to below 45%
This week it was back over 60% as he played more time outside than inside
If the coaches can’t see this and continue to play him inside it kills our chances of having some one outside to use it if we win it
Play brown inside he can’t kick it have him handball it to Sidey and let him use the freaking ball
Blind Freddie can see this why can’t the coaches ?? |
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E
Joined: 05 May 2010
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Alex wrote: | | DE means nothing. Mayne being at the top shows this. Chip 15 metre backward kicks should not count as an effective disposal. Mayne is Top 5 in disposals per game, but is 16TH in metres gained! Also, Poulter is 12th in metres gained for our team, but has only played half the games this year. He has 2177 total metres gained, so if you double that, he would be third, only behind Crisp and Maynard. |
You'll get no disagreement from me. I posted it because Abdul specifically asked. Another way of doing it would be to divide the total metres gained by the number of effective disposals (or effective kicks).
Thus, Mayne has "gained" 1,962 metres from 168 effective disposals (average of 11.67 metres gained per disposal), whereas Thomas has gained 2 metres more with only 90 effective disposals (average gain 21.8 m) and Sidebottom has gained 3,559 metres with 186 effective disposals (average gain 19.1 m). Crisp, who has gained the most metres and, I think it would be fair to say, kicks very long quite a lot, has an average gain per effective disposal of 26.3 metres. Those averages blend the proportion of handballs to kicks, as well. Looking at other examples, Poulter averages 27.7 and Mihocek averages a whopping 39.3.
There are plenty of other ways to cut the disposals data. That's just one example. |
Meters gained is a funny stat
A inside mid getting a 2 meter handball out of traffic to a open team mate who kicks it 25m but which disposal is more important ?
I personally like kicking eff as a stat because doesn’t matter who much of the ball you get but if you don’t use it well then it’s pointless
Mayne will always have high kicking eff because he kicks backwards or side ways to Moore or someone else
I would have Moore kicking for me because he has a good long boot and takes on the corridor more
Another is effective disposals no point getting it 30 times if half are not effective or worthless
Crisp stats will always be high as he plays mid sliding back to defence and using his racking boot to clear it out so we can reset
As a side I have been highly critical of Sidey this season as his kicking eff had dropped from a career ave over 60% to below 45%
This week it was back over 60% as he played more time outside than inside
If the coaches can’t see this and continue to play him inside it kills our chances of having some one outside to use it if we win it
Play brown inside he can’t kick it have him handball it to Sidey and let him use the freaking ball
Blind Freddie can see this why can’t the coaches ?? |
meters gained is an important stat for ball carriers and especially back flankers and wings. Its obviously not the stat by which an extractor will be judged (maybe contested possessions?). but similarly, DE is equally menaingless for those who get contested ball vs those who get a lot of uncontested ball and people have used that stat to judge Adams unfairly for YEARS!!!!!
Re Sidey, i think the thing you miss is that he always does what's best for the team. With Elliot and Adams out, DeGoey had to spend more time forward and so Sidey had to go into the middle. When Elliot came back it freed up Sidey to play where he plays best.
Just because the coaching staff puts sidey in the middle doesn't mean they think its his best position. Sometimes players have top play out of position.
Sidey on a wing floating back and forward will always be his best position. When we can play him there we look better. When we cant, its because we have massive holes to fill. No point parking the rolls royce on the wing if we never get the ball!!!
Also, Callum Brown might be best as an inside mid, but he isnt good enough to be put there. My best position is full forward but that doesnt mean i'm getting a game for collingwood. Why would you put someone in the guts just because its THEIR best position. They have to prove its also best for the team. Its just sad that Collum (who is clearly not AFL standard) is still getting games because our depth is now so thin.
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Ohhh, the Premiership's a cakewalk ....... |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Good post, E.
Footy is a team first game and there will always be plenty of periods where a players “ best “ position is sacrificed for the ultimate good. It tends to happens more in the weaker teams because there’s more holes to fill.
Just on metres gained, there was a period 2 - 3 years ago, when a teams OVERALL metres gained, was a major deciding factor in the outcome of games. The outcome was something like the team that won the overall metres gained at +10% >, went on to win that game around 80% ( ? ) of all occasions.
Having said that, someone has to take first possession in order to get the chain started and that can just easily be with a 10 metre backwards release handball.
It’s always been an important stat. Significant metres gained in any chain means your winning the territory battle. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Callum Brown is probably a starting centreman in an AFL team - he, Pendlebury and Sidebottom turned that game after half-time in the midfield. What he isn't is a defensive forward. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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I just wish Callum Brown could improve his kicking. He is most effective when he hand-passes it to others. I'd hate to rely on him kicking the winning goal from 25 metres in a Grand Final.  |
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Uncle Jack 
Joined: 17 Apr 2019
Location: Canberra
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I just wish Callum Brown could improve his kicking. He is most effective when he hand-passes it to others. I'd hate to rely on him kicking the winning goal from 25 metres in a Grand Final. |
Yeah, probably best to handball off to Cox (most accurate since McKenna) running past. |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| scoobydoo wrote: | | Could Cox & Cameron cover Grundy on those stats & we still have $1million per year in our cap? |
Yes we could, but that's unfortunately just a fantasy thanks to Bucks
Cox as a ruckman drifting forward creating a mismatch would be even more damaging than being the sole target up forward with 2 defenders on him. Plus then we could have actually recruited a key forward. |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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