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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Lazza wrote: | The conundrum that needs to be considered as a distinct possibility is this :-
The standard expectation is that a new coach bringing instant success is a given. Okay if not instant, say within 5 years. Has anyone considered that a new coach might get worse results? Would it be that in retrospect, it might show that Bucks did a tremendous job with the list he had? A kind of retrospective respect? Do we have unrealistic expectations of our players?Logical thinking tells me that expecting success with a new coach is only part of speculative thinking, akin to changing your tattslotto numbers and expecting to win first division immediately. 🙄
To me our current problems maybe covering up much deeper issues that interfere with plans designed for achieving success. |
True mate, i actually dont envy our next Coach, really, the expectation on him to produce instant results will be huge, massive, from the outset, and as we know, some Pies fans, aka some on here, lack patience of any sort. Hes going to be under real heat, from the fans an media too, from day one, i reckon. 
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Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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^ something Collingwood hasn't done for... well like I actually can't think of the last time we did this? If ever? Hafey/Matthews? I can't think of anyone else who might possibly fit this criteria at our club?
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| What'sinaname wrote: | I love this suggestion PnC. But I would like your view on whether you think the club is prepared to admit that it is in crisis. I believe the club is more intent on trying to convince everyone that it is not in a crisis.
I genuinely think the club is just waiting for a a win or maybe two to justify to itself the re-appointment of Buckley. They probably hoped the last two weeks and next week would have been ideal if we won all three to announce an extension. Now it is just treading water waiting for the right moment. |
Well mate, lose to Norf and it sure is a bloody crisis then, absolutely, it kind of is now, really. i actually think the Suns are not a bad side now, they have improved a lot, no longer easybeats, beat Swans last week. I reckon next year they could well be as good as the Giants, at long last they are on the way up. Of course,we still played badly against them, not denying that for a moment.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Lazza wrote: | The conundrum that needs to be considered as a distinct possibility is this :-
The standard expectation is that a new coach bringing instant success is a given. Okay if not instant, say within 5 years. Has anyone considered that a new coach might get worse results? Would it be that in retrospect, it might show that Bucks did a tremendous job with the list he had? A kind of retrospective respect? Do we have unrealistic expectations of our players?Logical thinking tells me that expecting success with a new coach is only part of speculative thinking, akin to changing your tattslotto numbers and expecting to win first division immediately. 🙄
To me our current problems maybe covering up much deeper issues that interfere with plans designed for achieving success. |
True mate, i actually dont envy our next Coach, really, the expectation on him to produce instant results will be huge, massive, from the outset, and as we know, some Pies fans, aka some on here, lack patience of any sort. Hes going to be under real heat, from the fans an media too, from day one, i reckon. |
Only fools will expect instant results, Eddies captain calls are going to cost us for years. I personally don't expect our premiership window to open for 3-4 years, minimum. We sold the farm and now we'll have to sux it up and wait till we can realistically draft again, unless we trade players out like JDG, etc.. and then still we have to develop them.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | ^ something Collingwood hasn't done for... well like I actually can't think of the last time we did this? If ever? Hafey/Matthews? I can't think of anyone else who might possibly fit this criteria at our club? |
Collingwood always is the big story Wolfie, for ever and a day, and the media are like a shark feediing frenzy off us, no Club comes under the microscope more than us, that i do know for sure. Goodluck to our new Coach, whoever the poor bugger is, hes going to need it.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | ^ something Collingwood hasn't done for... well like I actually can't think of the last time we did this? If ever? Hafey/Matthews? I can't think of anyone else who might possibly fit this criteria at our club? |
Collingwood always is the big story Wolfie, for ever and a day, and the media are like a shark feediing frenzy off us, no Club comes under the microscope more than us, that i do know for sure. Goodluck to our new Coach, whoever the poor bugger is, hes going to need it. |
Of course, we're Collingwood. But I was more referring to your comments about us going through a 'long professional process' to recruit our next coach - I was saying I don't think our club has actually ever done that in its entire history and I'm not actually kidding...
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Hey Piesnchess, you shit me dude! You say what I meant to say in far fewer words and less waffle🤨 You are spot on. I can handle and usually empathise with other opinions from posters here who by and large are genuine Collingwood supporters who are hurting at the current predicament. I will never trust the hack media who will only wish dire results for us to feed their bloodthirsty need for causing as much pain as possible for supporters already hurting. I do wonder sometimes about their capacity to be decent human beings.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | True mate, i actually dont envy our next Coach, really, the expectation on him to produce instant results will be huge, massive, from the outset, and as we know, some Pies fans, aka some on here, lack patience of any sort. Hes going to be under real heat, from the fans an media too, from day one, i reckon. |
No, I think supporters will be patient and they're not expecting instant results.
It's just that a lot of us want a fresh start with a new person in charge to oversee a rebuild and drive us into a new era. It's essentially a clean slate and hopefully giving the club a new lease of life.
The Buckley love affair is over. He had 10 seasons and a whole period to rebuild. It hasn't worked for the most part. Just doing the same thing over and over again is madness. I will never hate or dislike the man, but it's time to move on whether it be now or at seasons end.
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Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
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| Lazza wrote: | The conundrum that needs to be considered as a distinct possibility is this :-
The standard expectation is that a new coach bringing instant success is a given. Okay if not instant, say within 5 years. Has anyone considered that a new coach might get worse results? Would it be that in retrospect, it might show that Bucks did a tremendous job with the list he had? A kind of retrospective respect? Do we have unrealistic expectations of our players?Logical thinking tells me that expecting success with a new coach is only part of speculative thinking, akin to changing your tattslotto numbers and expecting to win first division immediately. 🙄
To me our current problems maybe covering up much deeper issues that interfere with plans designed for achieving success. |
Yes I've contemplated the possibility it could be worse, but I've also contemplated the possibility that a hiring a new coach will be a great thing for the club as well if it's done properly. This conservative mindset of not doing anything bold or aggressive is sucking the life out of the club while other clubs try different things.
I think back to the Bulldogs at the end of 2014. The captain wanted to leave and the senior coach appeared to be losing the playing group. Instead of them wallowing in misery and sticking with the coach, they went out there and traded for Tom Boyd (the #1 draft pick in 2013) to replace their captain and they hired Luke Beveridge who was a relative unknown for a lot of people. Two years later, he wins them a flag. Everyone thought the Dogs would be perennial failures for the next decade when the crisis hit fever pitch for them.
The club has lost its edge. If we adopted this conservative mindset in 1999, Tony Shaw would have stayed as coach and Malthouse would have never been hired and it's possible we don't make back to back grand finals in 2002 and 2003 and allow him to build the list back up for 2010/11.
Changing things could blow up in our faces, but I want us to do something bold rather than stick with the same personnel and philosophy that's failing us now and has been failing for most of the last decade. I want to be excited to go to the football again and see the Woodsmen hit their stride.
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| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
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masoncox
masoncox
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
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It really boils down to one word
HOPE.
We have no hope with Bix.
We can get some hope with a new coach.
Probably won't make much difference.
But I can live with hope and not despair. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Lazza wrote: | | Hey Piesnchess, you shit me dude! You say what I meant to say in far fewer words and less waffle🤨 You are spot on. I can handle and usually empathise with other opinions from posters here who by and large are genuine Collingwood supporters who are hurting at the current predicament. I will never trust the hack media who will only wish dire results for us to feed their bloodthirsty need for causing as much pain as possible for supporters already hurting. I do wonder sometimes about their capacity to be decent human beings. |
True Comarde, that ambulance chaser bloody Barrett was positively salivating over our dilemma an dire straits today, he was rapt, and he sunk the boot right into us. Kornes is the same. I do like Ross Lyon though, very rational and thinking,very commonsense, hes fair, and has a fantastic football brain. He would make a damn good coach, ive changed my mind bout him. 
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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JC Hartley 
16 premierships now in the history books. Let's be the first club to 17 premierships.
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Location: South Yarra
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Darkness has risen, and the term rock-bottom has reached a new level of prominence at Collingwood after their inept and wasteful display against the Gold Coast Suns, when they failed by 24 points (4 goals) for the second consecutive match in as many weekends. The Magpies were extremely embarrassing to put it politely, and played with no care, effort or desire to compete against an opponent who did as they pleased for the vast duration of the contest, and punished the Magpies accordingly. As soon as the final siren had sounded, I made the assessment that Collingwood are now at rock-bottom for the first time in years, which I rarely mention and found it increasingly staggering that the club I embrace, and will continue to embrace has found themselves in a plight it cannot counter nor conquer in the immediate future. As far as Nathan Buckley's destiny as coach is concerned, I will keep endorsing him until he is no longer coaching the club. That's as philosophical as I will be about this predicament, and how clear my judgement will remain in the foreseeable future. The countless reports about Bucks in recent times is extremely tiring and are sounding like broken records. I'm not in the camp of axing Buckley. However, I remain open to the possibilities of who might coach the Woods in the event Bucks has had enough, or the club hierarchy determine with him that the club needs movement at the station.
Collingwood only won a handful of statistical categories. They were handballs by +9 (149 - 140), hit-outs were won by +36 (50 - 14), +6 for clearances (37 - 31), with a differential of +7 from stoppage clearances (27 - 20), and Tackles Inside 50 had an advantage of +1 ( 9 - 8 ). Gold Coast had a differential of +33 for disposals (403 - 370), kicks were won by +42 (263 - 221), while contested possessions were up by +2 (138 - 136), and uncontested possessions had a margin of +38 (267 - 229). Centre clearances were won by +1 (11 - 10), +3 from intercept possessions (75 - 72), tackles were +7 (58 - 51), while uncontested marks had a gap of +43 (125 - 82), Contested Marks were up by +5 (21 - 16), and +4 for Marks Inside 50 ( 12 - 8 ). The Suns capped off proceedings with a differential of +3 for Inside 50s (50 - 47), which highlighted how all of those marks and kicks the Suns won against the Magpies came about because Collingwood did not attempt to put any substantial pressure to close those marks or kicks down, which allowed Gold Coast every opportunity to score enough goals, which eventuated promptly and subsequently denied any prospect of a victory for the Magpies when the game concluded.
Josh Daicos (27 disposals @ 74%, 229 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 19 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 16 handballs, 4 marks, 5 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 8 score involvements, 4 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 2 Inside 50s, 2 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) was one of the few players to stand up in the midfield by creating opportunties for the team to score and tackled ferociously when he did not have the ball. Got reward from his tackling with a classy snap which he converted in the third term.
Scott Pendlebury (26 disposals @ 69%, 371 metres gained, 12 contested possessions, 14 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 15 kicks, 11 handballs, 5 marks, 4 tackles, 2 goal assists, 5 score involvements, 6 clearances, 6 stoppage clearances & 5 Inside 50s) won enough disposals to be influential, yet he proved to be ineffective at times.
Brodie Grundy (21 disposals @ 76%, 219 metres gained, 15 contested possessions, 6 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 37 hit-outs, 10 kicks, 11 handballs, 3 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 4 tackles, 7 score involvements, 5 clearances, 3 centre clearances & 2 stoppage clearances & 1 goal) had a field day, but had minimal support beneath his taps for the team to cash in on his dominance against inferior opponents.
Steele Sidebottom (21 disposals @ 86%, 283 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 12 kicks, 9 handballs, 6 marks, 2 tackles, 2 goal assists, 5 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 3 Inside 50s & 3 Rebound 50s) had an improved game with his ball use considerably better compared to his form in recent weeks. Worked hard to win his possessions at all times.
Isaac Quaynor (21 disposals @ 48%, 474 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 14 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 15 kicks, 6 handballs, 4 marks, 3 score involvements, 4 Inside 50s & 5 Rebound 50s) had a highly wasteful game at half-back, with a number of his kicks missing targets. 9 turnovers for a player of his calibre, is too high and too many. Quaynor will look to reduce those errors next weekend.
John Noble (20 disposals @80%, 438 metres gained, 2 contested possessions, 18 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 18 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks, 3 score involvements, 3 Inside 50s & 4 Rebound 50s) maintained his high disposal efficiency from defence to give his teammates an opportunity to mark the ball on a regular basis.
Nathan Murphy (15 disposals @ 73%, 241 metres gained, 2 contested possessions, 13 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 10 kicks, 5 handballs, 7 marks, 2 score involvements & 2 Inside 50s) backed in his ability to intercept the ball aerially, used the ball wisely, and provided the highlight of a forgettable loss with a Nick Riewoldt-like mark running back with the flight of the ball in the third term.
Mark Keane (13 disposals @ 85%, 223 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 7 intercept possessions, 9 kicks, 4 handballs, 7 marks, 3 Contested Marks, 3 score involvements & 2 Inside 50s) displayed his aerial capabilities behind the ball by taking a number of nice marks. Keane is very inexperienced as a key defender who has proven he is yet to contain opponents who kick goals on him. Once Keane knows where to position himself more often in marking contests, he'll become a much-improved footballer.
Brody Mihocek (24 disposals @ 50%, 552 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 20 kicks, 4 handballs, 12 marks, 5 Marks Inside 50, 8 score involvements, 8 Inside 50s & 4 goals) was comfortably Collingwood's best player, and easily the best forward for the Magpies with his ability to lead up and take marks, and regularly impacted the scoreboard when nobody else could complete the task. Would love to see you kick 5 goals in a game before your career ends at AFL level, Brody. Pefect opportunity to achieve that landmark next weekend.
Beau McCreery (10 disposals @ 70%, 240 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 5 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 4 kicks, 6 handballs, 9 tackles, 4 Tackles Inside 50 & 3 Inside 50s) has continued to display his brand of footy with ferocious tackling and pressure. He has had a crack in all of the games he has played so far. Hopefully you'll get to taste victory with a Powerade shower next weekend, Beau. You're fast becoming one of my favourite players at the club.
Collingwood's next game will be against North Melbourne at Marvel Stadium on May 8. Time to pull your fingers out, Collingwood! Get back to playing the brand of footy you're capable of producing against the worst-ranked team in the competition. Make an emphasis on starting the game well, maintain the rage, then put the Kangaroos to the sword in the last quarter. This could easily be the last game of the 2021 season that Collingwood enters as favourites, so cash in now and deliver a much-needed victory to hang our hats on before the road gets even harder. I want you to do well, Woods, but you're not showing any signs of that in more recent times. Prove to the critics that you can bruise the Roos and collect the points.
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JC Hartley |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| masoncox wrote: | It really boils down to one word
HOPE.
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Interesting that you should mention that word!!
A cursory analysis by Tom Browne, David King and Joe Montagna this evening on Fox Footy suggested that the senior players have dropped their effort a bit - not overtly, but more sub-consciously, because they can see they will probably never play finals again with Collingwood.
I am wondering if the same malaise will affect the likes of JDG and Darcy? |
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Rd10.1998_11.1#36
rd10.1998_11.1#36
Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Location: Sevilla, Spain
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However much longer Buckley stays, this attitude of "I shouldn't have to motivate the players or teach basic skills" has to change, since we're severely lacking in both, regardless of what "should" be the case or not
| Piesnchess wrote: | | i actually dont envy our next Coach, really, the expectation on him to produce instant results will be huge, massive, from the outset |
Any new coach worthy of the job will demand a 3 year contract and the understanding that we're rebuilding. People in Hell want iced water, they're not getting it
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https://forever.collingwoodfc.com.au/sav-sinks-the-dockers/ |
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Gerry Cooper
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
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| Jezza wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | True mate, i actually dont envy our next Coach, really, the expectation on him to produce instant results will be huge, massive, from the outset, and as we know, some Pies fans, aka some on here, lack patience of any sort. Hes going to be under real heat, from the fans an media too, from day one, i reckon. |
No, I think supporters will be patient and they're not expecting instant results.
It's just that a lot of us want a fresh start with a new person in charge to oversee a rebuild and drive us into a new era. It's essentially a clean slate and hopefully giving the club a new lease of life.
The Buckley love affair is over. He had 10 seasons and a whole period to rebuild. It hasn't worked for the most part. Just doing the same thing over and over again is madness. I will never hate or dislike the man, but it's time to move on whether it be now or at seasons end. |
One wonders how those who carped for years to sack Malthouse and appoint their boy Buckley will react to a new coach. Will they support him or will they begin undermining them in favor of their next messiah?
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We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.� |
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